Author Topic: THE FINAL SOLUTIONS  (Read 9224 times)

Offline Zardoz

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 190
Re: THE FINAL SOLUTIONS
« Reply #90 on: September 18, 2017, 03:15:07 PM »
I bet youre the type that leaves your own squaddies to save your own neck....

Never happen. I guess you don't know me too well. But I would guess that is the way you operate. Projection, they call that.
Your incessant whining just adds entertainment value to my gaming experience :cool:

Offline Vraciu

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 14139
Re: THE FINAL SOLUTIONS
« Reply #91 on: September 18, 2017, 03:58:51 PM »
Hehe.  Never said it wasn't.

Wiley.

 :aok :cheers: :salute
”KILLER V”
Charter Member of the P-51 Mustang Skin Mafia
- THE DAMNED -
King of the Hill Champ Tour 219 - Win Percentage 100
"1v1 Skyyr might be the best pilot ever to play the game." - Via PM, Name Redacted

Offline bustr

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 12436
Re: THE FINAL SOLUTIONS
« Reply #92 on: September 18, 2017, 04:50:34 PM »
The Melee arena or the MA once had a community that took care of and nurtured itself by showing up every night and playing the game. Squads ran missions to capture feilds which generated activity. The Lone wolf types had no end to targets, and the budding GV game had something to do by supporting base attacks if they could get there fast enough. The rest took part in these mass group activities that didn't require any skill or leveling up. Just showing up and following along was enough. You learned by being there inside of a semi organized group doing an activity. That was the secret to newbie retention, not the Trainers, or some 1v1 dueling arena, or any of the crap nuget throws on the wall. A community that accepted and took you with them to break things because you pushed the join button for a mission.

Over the next 18 months it was up to the newbie where he wanted to develop his skills and interests. And because of those early missions he had friends, mentors, and probably a squad he belonged to.

The three country model works as an open sandbox world with no forced activities, leveling up, or other requirements. What makes it work, is a community, it is not kept alive by lone wolves or first person shooter styles of combat because it has never been that kind of a game. It will support that mentality of game play though as a part of a community but, not as the only mentality of that community. The MA community didn't all leave the game, you will find them in SFO caring for and nurturing a community. Many of the loudest complainers and weirdball idea tossers in these forums want the game changed into some kind of a bastardization of a lone wolf utopia ala two sided death match WW2oish failure. And to add insult to that injury, forced compliance with garbage rules and having to purchase your skills above paying your subscription fee every month.

And while they are not getting what they want, they come in here and chew on each other, the forum community, and blame Hitech for everything else while pronouncing doom on his game.

The closest thing to community we still have in the Melee arena are the remaining large squads who generate activity when they are in the arena playing the game. Other than that, most players are waiting around for someone else to start something so they can take advantage of it. We seem to have an aversion to missions anymore which is how you introduce newbies to the game. So they stop getting their whatsis handed to them every time they can manage to get off the runway. You really want to help newbies, put up missions and take them along. The TA will not give them the AH bug, they are not yet ready for the DA, combat in the company of friendlies will.

If your retort is missions and land grab killed the game and things have to change because Hitech is an old out of touch whatsit. Maybe this is no longer your kind of game, that shelf life of an AH gamer Hitech spoke of once. I never saw any of the loudest complainers years back leading missions. They used that energy to call players like FBDred a dweeb for constantly leading those missions which they happily poached for kills. Because they were mobile target rich environments full of vets who could fight 1v1 and newbies.

Once a roll gets moving and bases taken these days, the constant question on range after each capture is where to next. And organically everyone loads up and goes to that "next". Once in motion it's not like a real mission roll out but, everyone is going to the same place to break things "together". Things that are organic work best in an open sandbox environment. Wonder if there is anything Hitech can do to help this evolution of the mission concept so new players get the point to tag along? Success keeps these sessions going for some time each night that they popup generating impromptu activity. There are probably several players who are the mavens that naturally sparkplug these events, who are not on every night of the week. Kind of like FBDred in the old days with his FreeBird missions. But, Hitech is not holding a gun to anyone's head forcing them to take part to level up or get their next bigger better toy.
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline Wiley

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8080
Re: THE FINAL SOLUTIONS
« Reply #93 on: September 18, 2017, 04:58:02 PM »
Except in the backwhen, there were generally enough people interested in defending that actual battles occurred, as opposed to now where the rolling offensive encounters little to no resistance partially because the best defense is an M3 run, among other things.

Wiley.
If you think you are having a 1v1 in the Main Arena, your SA has failed you.

JG11

Offline Arlo

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 24759
Re: THE FINAL SOLUTIONS
« Reply #94 on: September 18, 2017, 05:02:28 PM »
Except in the backwhen, there were generally enough people interested in defending that actual battles occurred, as opposed to now where the rolling offensive encounters little to no resistance partially because the best defense is an M3 run, among other things.

Wiley.

That's a people problem .... not a game design or business plan problem.

Lead by example.
Show what fun is.
For every ten weeds there may come a worthwhile plant.
Raise enough plants and the weeds won't choke them out.
Don't become a weed, yourself.

Offline Vraciu

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 14139
Re: THE FINAL SOLUTIONS
« Reply #95 on: September 18, 2017, 05:06:42 PM »
That's a people problem .... not a game design or business plan problem.

Lead by example.
Show what fun is.
For every ten weeds there may come a worthwhile plant.
Raise enough plants and the weeds won't choke them out.
Don't become a weed, yourself.

Be water,  my friend.
”KILLER V”
Charter Member of the P-51 Mustang Skin Mafia
- THE DAMNED -
King of the Hill Champ Tour 219 - Win Percentage 100
"1v1 Skyyr might be the best pilot ever to play the game." - Via PM, Name Redacted

Offline bustr

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 12436
Re: THE FINAL SOLUTIONS
« Reply #96 on: September 18, 2017, 05:10:19 PM »
Arlo, no one wants to lead anymore, they just want to go piu, piu, piu and long out maybe to make the rounds of their other games. Complaining and fighting in here gives the same emotional reward as going piu, piu, piu in the MA. That's why I've always referred to it as the second most addictive game in Aces High. Look back over the years at how normally rational adults conducted themselves in here like people they would never allow in their own homes.
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline Wiley

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8080
Re: THE FINAL SOLUTIONS
« Reply #97 on: September 18, 2017, 05:12:14 PM »
That's a people problem .... not a game design or business plan problem.

Game design is a contributing factor though.  A solid percentage of players look for the most effective means of accomplishing the task they've undertaken.

For offenders, that is rolling undefended bases.  When an effective defense is mounted, it is better to shift the attack to another location that is undefended than it is to press the attack.

For defenders, it's generally ground based AA defense coupled with resupply.

Wiley.
If you think you are having a 1v1 in the Main Arena, your SA has failed you.

JG11

Offline Lusche

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23888
      • Last.FM Profile
Re: THE FINAL SOLUTIONS
« Reply #98 on: September 18, 2017, 05:26:29 PM »
That's a people problem .... not a game design or business plan problem.


There never is any people problem. The customers (players) are what they are and anyone creating a product have to work with that. You can't change the players with appeals for a different gameplay. They use the tools provided as they wish. If something is wrong with the way the players are playing, it's question of game design.
Steam: DrKalv
E:D Snailman

Offline Arlo

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 24759
Re: THE FINAL SOLUTIONS
« Reply #99 on: September 18, 2017, 05:58:02 PM »
You can't change the players with appeals for a different gameplay.

Don't appeal. Don't gritch. Don't cry. Don't 'log in disgust' (after 20 seconds or 20 minutes). Play. Fly. Be the example .... and don't worry if they follow it or not. Have fun. Have fun with friends. Have fun alone. The only changes have been improvements (in spite of players who pretend to know a better time, way or game). Keep the community thriving. Sow seeds for another generation.

If not .... fek off.


Offline Lusche

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23888
      • Last.FM Profile
Re: THE FINAL SOLUTIONS
« Reply #100 on: September 18, 2017, 06:06:52 PM »
You missed the point by a mile.
Steam: DrKalv
E:D Snailman

Offline The Fugitive

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17921
      • Fugi's Aces Help
Re: THE FINAL SOLUTIONS
« Reply #101 on: September 18, 2017, 06:13:04 PM »
You missed the point by a mile.

He does that  :D

Offline Arlo

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 24759
Re: THE FINAL SOLUTIONS
« Reply #102 on: September 18, 2017, 06:15:07 PM »
You missed the point by a mile.

I'm making the point.  :D

Offline Arlo

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 24759
Re: THE FINAL SOLUTIONS
« Reply #103 on: September 18, 2017, 06:16:44 PM »
He does that  :D

I've never been one to tell other players what to do.

Again.

Just do.

Fret not.

Just do.  :D

Offline The Fugitive

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17921
      • Fugi's Aces Help
Re: THE FINAL SOLUTIONS
« Reply #104 on: September 18, 2017, 06:23:31 PM »
Its getting harder to "Just Do" when there are getting to be less and less players to "Just Do" it with.