The HO

[1stpar3]

Right! I understand EXACTLY where you are coming from...Problem is, HOW is the NOOB supposed to know different? Peer pressure....He isnt going to go with that, as most of the pressure coming from peers is EITHER getting berated in PMs or ch 200 or shot at on the merge(like HE ISNT supposed to do). I adopted a Ho unto others as they will ho into you mentality. In my mind, if you dont want a HO in MA, advertise where and what you are flying....then I may trust that I can merge cold for a great turn fight. In the MA, I will take ANY shot you give me,its your job to stay out of my sights. If you insist on making THAT easy, I will shoot at you. There are times that on a merge I can develop it further, and recognize that the red isnt actually willing to fire on the merge! That is preferred, but after an hour or 2 of not seeing this happen...and YOU are expecting me to merge like that...thats ON YOU! And no amount of PEER PRESSURE and belittling will change that. It just makes them look silly. If you think you are superior...PROVE IT and shut up if you cant. Everyone dies...and here you can keep doing it! I love you guys, even FESS( ). Doesnt matter what I do with that guy, I am toast in 3 turns. But hey, I like toast 

[JunkyII]

1stpar3....thats what I'm getting at and 100coogn's response is a perfect example for my overall point.

If we got guys saying they will take the shot they aren't showing a good example for new players performance...which leads to them getting smacked down by the sharks and ends up making them quit.

Say I up a P40E...I can win a lot of fights against Spit 16s, Yak3s ect ect against players like GP5, Humboldt ect ect because these guys HO on a constant basis....if they would just learn how to actually merge they would have a lot more success and they wouldn't be jousting new sticks to the game.

Hotard said last night he has success with HOs...thats only because he has better aim then %90 of the community...same reason why 2cmex can get away with it...they have that aim but Noobs don't and people shouldn't be telling them it's ok because you are just failing them.

And it doesn't take 2 to HO...I can avoid all day and sooner or later one guy will get lucky.

[TequilaChaser]

No, it only takes one guy to HO. Nobody says you have to go for and take a shot in that instance.

Yes, You never want to be in front of anyones guns, but it is a game and your going to end up there more often than not. Its the best place to get that lead turn going to get the angle on the other guy. In the game in many instances your dodging two, trying force an over shoot on one while two or more are spraying and praying in a HO merge

Agreed, it only takes one to HO shoot

I don't agree with the 2nd underlined/bold sentence/statement....unless I'm not reading and understanding what you mean by that....

You should never be in close proximity near a head on position, if you are setting up for a proper lead turn regardless of which direction you are engaging from... If you are setting up to go for a lead turn while merging flying towards one another....


Hope this helps

TC

[1stpar3]

I see where you are coming from Junky,in my understanding though,in avoiding the Head on shot means it is a deflection shot. I will never pull into a PLAYING CHICKEN in an alley HEAD ON. If I understand you, this is what you are calling a HO, GUNS BLAZING MERGE? When I am referring to "Take the Ho shot" I am saying..I am setting up a merge,the RED INSTEAD of adjusting his approach TO MY plane of travel, rolls in to go ALLEY STYLE instead of setting up HIS MERGE....I will shoot at him. If nothing more than to make him rethink his merge. I was there first so why should I change? I will if I must, but thats just only way I can explain what I mean   Just about everyone takes the deflection shot,in my way of thinking that isnt a ho. If I am diving under a Red for the merge and he tries to keep me in his sights as I dive under,THAT Is NOT A HO. If I am climbing up to a RED and he noses over to meet me coming up that is NOT a ho. That was me being stupid against Fess or AKAK

[The Fugitive]

Agreed, it only takes one to HO shoot

I don't agree with the 2nd underlined/bold sentence/statement....unless I'm not reading and understanding what you mean by that....

You should never be in close proximity near a head on position, if you are setting up for a proper lead turn regardless of which direction you are engaging from... If you are setting up to go for a lead turn while merging flying towards one another....


Hope this helps

TC

Ideally, no, but this is a game and it seems to be the number 1 move of many players, as Junky said "against players like GP5, Humboldt ect ect because these guys HO on a constant basis...." after all, nobody really dies.

[TequilaChaser]

Gotcha, you was replying in reference to Junky's post

[bustr]

I see more "snap HO" for a quick engine oiling, pilot wound, or just quick end to the fight these days with tracers off than I've ever seen HOing in the last 15 years. And Junky knows who most of them are, which is sad where things have devolved to by those players. So can you blame the newer players for HOing when their expectation is to be towered on any first pass once they manage to get to a fight? It really takes as much practice as learning ACM to learn how to avoid the majority of those well developed "snap HO's". And over 15 years I remember a significant number of those now HOing were vocal proponents of HOing ruins our game, so they didn't HO.

We did this to ourselves, the new players just like children did what we do to win. 

[100Coogn]

No, it only takes one guy to HO. Nobody says you have to go for and take a shot in that instance.

Yes, You never want to be in front of anyones guns, but it is a game and your going to end up there more often than not. Its the best place to get that lead turn going to get the angle on the other guy. In the game in many instances your dodging two, trying force an over shoot on one while two or more are spraying and praying in a HO merge.

Teaching those "HOers" to do a lead turn in that instance to drop in and get his shot/kill is a much better idea than the spray and pray deal.

If it only takes one guy to ho, who is he shooting at?  There would be nobody there... (only one person)

Coogan

[FLS]

Aircraft performance and energy states determine your options in the merge. An experienced trainer like Rodent57, with 35 years training real fighter pilots, can help a newbie understand his available choices.

[1stpar3]

I more than likely dont understand the terminology, but as I understand this HO issue, it is a HOT MERGE. Snap ho, ho whatever it is called. Even in the AH wiki pages, several write ups on planes and fighting in them say, to take any available shot presented to you. In NIKI for example, reason given...AMOUNT OF AMMO and the fact that the NIKI is sort of frail in LW areas of engagement. I think DUELERS shouldnt mix tactics with open war players. Its not really fair to be judged by each other out of natural habitats. Cold merges are great for 1 on 1 who knows more ACM fights. Not so much in a 3 on 1. In MA its all about killing not style, as long as I have been here any way. Like moonshine vrs Bourbon both will get you drunk, but it takes time to understand BOURBON, Moonshine is just quicker to get results. Why get into a stall fight in a crowd,if you can rake them on the way through. May not be as much fun as a stall fight, but it gets results

[TequilaChaser]

1stpar3, where are you getting the theory that "DUELERS" are mixing tactics with "open war players"?

I haven't seen where anyone in this thread has posted such responses....to me that sounds as off subject target as comparing "it takes time to understand bourbon, Moonshine is just quicker to get results" .....

As far as some people thinking that it takes two to HO, it doesn't..... it only takes one.... That One, being the individual that makes the decision to do so..... It is that simple...

With that said, nobody should complain about HO's, it is your own fault if you get shot by a HO shot, specifically if it happens during a 1 VS 1 engagement, because you're at fault for allowing yourself to come nose to nose in the first place....

A HO shot is  basically any frontal shot that is anywhere from 10 degrees off to dead on 0 degrees nose to nose....anything past that 10 degree cone is just another deflection shot...and most shots that people think are head on shots are truly deflection shots....people hate to admit that they got shot down or lost to a front quarter deflection shot and rather hide behind the excuse of "all you know how to do is HO"....

TC

[The Fugitive]

If it only takes one guy to ho, who is he shooting at?  There would be nobody there... (only one person)

Coogan

It takes 2 guys to merge, it takes one A hole to fire and turn it into a joust.

[Wiley]

It takes one guy to merge in a way that lets the other guy get guns on him and expect him not to pull the trigger then whine ad nauseam about it too.

Wiley.

[1stpar3]

1stpar3, where are you getting the theory that "DUELERS" are mixing tactics with "open war players"?

I haven't seen where anyone in this thread has posted such responses....to me that sounds as off subject target as comparing "it takes time to understand bourbon, Moonshine is just quicker to get results" .....

As far as some people thinking that it takes two to HO, it doesn't..... it only takes one.... That One, being the individual that makes the decision to do so..... It is that simple...

With that said, nobody should complain about HO's, it is your own fault if you get shot by a HO shot, specifically if it happens during a 1 VS 1 engagement, because you're at fault for allowing yourself to come nose to nose in the first place....

A HO shot is  basically any frontal shot that is anywhere from 10 degrees off to dead on 0 degrees nose to nose....anything past that 10 degree cone is just another deflection shot...and most shots that people think are head on shots are truly deflection shots....people hate to admit that they got shot down or lost to a front quarter deflection shot and rather hide behind the excuse of "all you know how to do is HO"....

TC

Not exactly the intent there Tc. What I mean as far as diffrence in DA and MA..is the civilized design behind the engagement. A wild west, bar, gunfighter, WOULD NOT give a ruffian 20 steps with his back turned towards him IE the cold merge or any other of gentlemans agreements. As to the moonshine vrs bourbon it is the time dedicated to the craft sir! Da experts are the distillers and the Ma crowd tend to be the quick get moonshiners. simply an analogy to express my meanings. Figured it would be easier to draw a picture guess not.  True sir, it only takes one guy to ho...question is, if you are getting shot AT, why not return fire. OK, if its not your style. UNDERSTANDABLE. I am not that evolved I guess, shoot at me I shoot back. I was just refering to the MA tactics devolveing to the point of, what ever to get the kill. I can understand the DUELERS side also, like with Bourbon analogy. IT TAKES TIME to mature those skills. Its refined and you can see the effort even through a glass bottle.    Sorry you didnt see what I was saying, maybe this explaination helps ya out TACTICS was the wrong word. meant more game play styles. Kill or be killed.... or ballroom dancing to the death 

[FESS67]

I get where you are coming from 1stpar3.

It may be a mentality or it may be a plane mismatch or different in energy states but at times in the MA you can box, you can brawl or you can wrestle.  Junky wants us all to be honourable boxers using intricate skills to defeat the opponent.  Me too a lot of the time but there are times when it is right to brawl or wrestle the fight.  The skilled boxer can sidestep but now and again he will get clotheslined or wrapped up in a clinch.

The issue with new guys is they often lack the skills to box so they have to charge in with their arms flailing.  It takes time for them to learn the more intricate skills.