Author Topic: Teaching myself terrain building .... slowly .... painfully  (Read 4839 times)

Offline Arlo

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Teaching myself terrain building .... slowly .... painfully
« on: January 08, 2018, 05:53:45 PM »
What wears me out quickest (it doesn't take much nowadays) is the editor's lack of slow, fine movement with the mouse. You get to the point on the map where you wish to start building terrain (and that'll take 5 minutes plus) and you begin. When you need to move ... whoosh ... you're suddenly 5,10,15 squares away. You try to get back ... whoosh ... you pass it by 5,10,15 squares the other way. You try again and you're completely off the mapping area. Each time it's with a slow and minuscule movement of the mouse. After ten more minutes of this, I'm tired. Too tired to keep trying.

Bustr, you must have the patience and stamina of a demicod.

Offline bustr

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Re: Teaching myself terrain building .... slowly .... painfully
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2018, 07:04:16 PM »
Hold down on the s key to raise yourself up from the water when you are first in the editor. As you do that use the wheel on your mouse to speed it up or slow it down. It will then effect every other movement key.

Also place your mouse on your clip board map you created in the map window and drag the red square around on the terrain. If you have not created one, from file pick make map and hit ok. Click save then exit. Find map.bmp in your project folder and copy it to the texstrc folder. Rename the map.bmp to terrainname.bmp and reopen the terrain editor. If you have given your project a name longer than 8 characters or used capitol letters, it won't open for you offline when you run a build after placing at least one field on the terrain to loginto. Constantly create new maps as you build the terrain so you can see your work in progress. You can edit a map file and paint cut lines or ridge lines or a new island or water runoff canyon locations you want to put in your terrain. Then you can open the terrain editor and see those and use them as cutting guides or building guides. Create a blank map. paint in all of your gross land foundation and then use the elevation tool to trace them. Or get a copy of L3DT or make your own heightmap files to import like I do from a multi layer art file converted to 16bit grayscale. I think I've documented that in one or all three of my project posts.

If you do not have a copy, please PM Esayscor for a copy of the updated terrain editor manual Easyscor and Greebo so graciously updated for everyone. It will get you through all of this, the artistic things and patience are on you..... :O

This is nothing compared to cutting a 32 point brilliant stone. I get burnt doing highly repetitious mountain ranges over weeks, or creatively agonizing over how to make topographical transitions between large features and elevations that resemble the real world. And then I get burnt doing micro features at 30, 40, 100+ spawn areas that each have to be tested with a tank and make sense for MA style GV combat.

If you want to be fair to the community, spend time listening to range for how players are utilizing terrains and problems they discuss between friends with driving through features. Read the whizzing contests in the forums for nuggets of insight to how the whizzers are using the terrain, not for what their fantasy's would be if they could force Hitech to do them. Then test, test, test, (you get the point here) all of your ideas and assumptions on a test terrain for GV combat micro terrain. Air combat guys just need a flat place with an airfield, while it's gratis for them as they climb up that your arena looks within reason like the real world.

Here is the single biggest mistake everyone probably makes from time to time. SCALE

The smallest brush size is about 100ft in diameter so the smallest topographical feature you can make is 100ft wide x 100ft high. In the terrain editor you will generally keep an eyeball view between 10-20kft above your work. If you don't constantly check elevations and remember how big the smallest building block of the polygon mesh is. From 10-20k feet up it will look reasonable to build truly detailed topographical formations for a 2000ft tall player. Then when you lay down a field so you can look at your master piece under construction offline in a tank. You will wonder how all of your low mountains and hilly landscape morphed into Mount Everest and the Himalayas. You lost your point of perspective and bearings for what the real scale in the arena is for your GV. Aside from creating Mt. Everest in detail to scale, a 500ft slope with runoff canyons will never look good up close because of the size of the polygons in the project polygon mesh work space. You use the clutter tiles to artfully adjust the look with grass, bushes and trees and a lot of driving around to see if it even makes sense. CM-eye mode is wonderful for rapidly moving around offline during a project looking for topo boo boos. It cannot replace driving out in a tank and asking yourself, self!!!, does this make sense or do we do it over? Be prepared to do over and loose a week or a month of work if you are honest with your self. It does not take long to wipe out some work and put new building blocks back in and do over once you accept it's part of the job. Often what you put back in will be better because of what you learned putting the first round in and you will have better ideas from that experience. Oh, and you will find at times you will discover a better way to do something that looks really good, yes if it looks better than all of that feature type you did on the terrain up to this point, update them also. You always learn through repetition and familiarity along with streamlining processes in the terrain editor. So far it's been I get down to the last major feature on a terrain and have a painting or structure and technique epiphany. Then I revisit the whole dang thing to standardize the look where I had hoped my testing terrain would save me this. :bhead :ahand :lol   

Other than that, contact Easyscor to get the manual.     
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline Arlo

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Re: Teaching myself terrain building .... slowly .... painfully
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2018, 07:27:44 PM »
Bustr, that was an excellent post. The insight you've given me scares the doo doo outa me. ;) Actually, there's a specific type of terrain I hoped to knock out and submit before school starts back up. It's much simpler than the ones you make (or so I hoped). It's a large sea terrain with 12 small land segments spaced evenly on the borders (4 per side). Each land segment would have one airfield and one port. Each port would have one BB task force and one CV taskforce:



This gives a large fleet 'hide and seek' type of map with 8 task forces per side (4 BB and 4 CV). Of course, this wouldn't be a GVer's favorite map. But it would be a ship vs ship aircraft vs ship paradise.

Offline bustr

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Re: Teaching myself terrain building .... slowly .... painfully
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2018, 09:55:15 PM »
If this is a 10x10 do you know slow task groups in our game travel? 30mph...

That's why in the center of my new terrain the pond is a little over 2 sectors and each country will have one port and two task groups. If you stick those islands on the edges, you are punishing players with boredom. Make a center ring of those islands and send half the task groups at each other inside the center pond described by those islands. That will balance things along with cutting out some of the boredom. I'm getting good results because I'm shortening field distances which shortens transit time to find activity. This is not 10 years ago.
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline Arlo

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Re: Teaching myself terrain building .... slowly .... painfully
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2018, 02:19:41 AM »
If this is a 10x10 do you know slow task groups in our game travel? 30mph...

That's why in the center of my new terrain the pond is a little over 2 sectors and each country will have one port and two task groups. If you stick those islands on the edges, you are punishing players with boredom. Make a center ring of those islands and send half the task groups at each other inside the center pond described by those islands. That will balance things along with cutting out some of the boredom. I'm getting good results because I'm shortening field distances which shortens transit time to find activity. This is not 10 years ago.

Agreed, it's not. This is obviously not an immediate gratification type of map. The main object of fun would be finding then sinking enemy task forces (well, that was a 'captain obvious' moment) that could be anywhere over a big stretch of ocean. I guess I blame my time as a P-3 sailor (and yes, I guess boredom on patrol was indeed a factor that had to be combated).

Your comments certainly bring it's faults to light. I did indeed forget that thee will always be an element of players that simply want to log on and dogfight and want some bases that are quickly reached for a furball. I did, indeed, shoot for a scale that purposefully uses a very large open body of water (though I envisioned side placement as Bishop - Knight - Rook - Bishop - Knight - Rook, etc.). How about:



This gives the map the central furball area that is appreciated on all MA maps plus tom more island territory to perch from or capture. each of the big islands could also have a port (upping the counts to 5 BB and 5 CV per side) and an airfield on each end.

Offline bustr

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Re: Teaching myself terrain building .... slowly .... painfully
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2018, 11:13:01 AM »
You don't need a central furball island, it is a double edged sword to ending up with everyone there and the rest of the arena a cricket farm. It also promotes some of the worst aspects and conduct of furballs. I did that on Oceania as an experiment, just like on BowlMA I did a tank crater, and on RiftVal I have a task group furball pond.

If this is for the MA, you will have to accommodate Hitech's need for a balanced game play arena. This is the arena where he makes his money presenting a combined arms open world Melee arena. And mixing the country's at the opening of the map when it goes into rotation will not be accepted. It's three countries.

You have a requirment to put in an HQ with strats and three un-capturable feilds to support them. That dictates a country which means you have to set them up with some buffer from the enemy or your terrain is screwed an hour into it's first rotation.

You control GV's by the use of spawns and their flow through a country but, if you have no role for GV's, you will drive those players from Hitech's arena and possibly cancel their subscriptions. I use one GV base as a logical support for a port along with at least two near by airfields to defend it or to attack it or to recapture it. With as many task groups as you intend, ports will change hands quickly and you may be looking at one country with almost all of the task groups. Now you have an imbalanced arena and you need land bases to counter that because a task group is a movable expression of a force multiplier. You will setup your arena for little greifers to have an imbalanced impact on the larger customer population.

Balance is the core of the Melee arena. All feilds are mini wars and you need to look at the surrounding feilds as balance and counter balance, think in triangles. Also for airfields I've tested how distance effects activity. The old school 25 miles separation or "distance\time" bores people and slows or inhibits activity. I've found 19 miles now keeps their attention focused and creating activity. So while your task groups are taking over an hour to cross a single sector, they are not going to sit around waiting or upping and flying around looking for enemy task groups. Task groups see each other at 18 miles based on how Hitech set the haze and that is about when some players are just willing to get in guns or up a few planes.

What are you going to do for the rest who will refuse to play the game from task groups or, refuse to fly? How often will task group gun solutions or LVT opportunities be available at 30mph. In the Melee arena you do not force the customers to play Pacific carrier wars or lump it for that evening. I only got away with making the HQ on BowlMA a pain because protecting strats with distance is a norm in the MA since it can be countered with high altitude bombers.

Here is a link to my google drive and the zip file has 5 png 2048x2048 files. Create a 5 layer png file using them as your master blueprint. Add a new layer for your land masses and a new layer for your feild locations and a new layer for GV spawns and a new layer for feild numbering and so forth. 2048x2048 gives you 8pixel = 1mile and then you can create your topography in a 1:1 and actually see what the results will be. Try filling each country with dots centered at 19 miles from each other, then placing small islands and archipelagos Of say 2x5 miles under them in some Pacific style of topography. That will leave a lot of water and you can keep the center say 2 sectors completely open. On a 10x10, 22-30 or so feilds per country is about average. You will need to allow for the HQ,city\strats and 2-3 uncapturable fields with one a 163 field in the back field of each country.   


https://drive.google.com/open?id=1whrVyTxyNe94D-nYXuxPkewpeFqV_8sH

The screen shot shows all 5 layers. The base layer is water, and a 25x25 mile 10x10 sector grid set in place exactly as it will have to be for map location requirements in the MA. Then a 19x19 grid to help visualize airfield spacing. A country divider into thirds and an effective combat area ring. In the screen shot below you can see how I created my blueprint 1:1 for Oceania using these files. And then because it's a 1:1, you can turn it into a hightmap file and import it into the terrain editor popping up your land masses in a few seconds.








« Last Edit: January 09, 2018, 11:56:49 AM by bustr »
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline Arlo

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Re: Teaching myself terrain building .... slowly .... painfully
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2018, 01:54:59 PM »
Thank you, Bustr.  :salute :cheers:

Offline bustr

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Re: Teaching myself terrain building .... slowly .... painfully
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2018, 03:26:13 PM »
Build your 2D 1:1 blueprint first and it will save you months of visualization problems, setting fields to proper spacing from each other, exact locations to the mile for GV spawns. When you are finished it will have your land masses, exact field placements and numbering along with all of your GV spawns laid out. You will find while you are creating the blueprint file your mental picture of your terrain will sharpen and you may well evolve things. Also you can use color bands for general elevations that can later be converted for a heightmap file.

If you have been reading my forum posting documenting for each of my terrains, you have seen how I used the blueprint to remove any confusion on how my terrain will be laid out before I ever opened the terrain editor. Doing it in layers means you can quickly make changes or fix mistakes. If you start a documentation post in here and post screen shots of your blueprint, it allows Hitech to review your terrain blueprint before you take the chance on wasting any work in the terrain editor. 
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline Arlo

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Re: Teaching myself terrain building .... slowly .... painfully
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2018, 03:40:45 PM »
Good advice. This will be a long term project, obviously. No whipping out a 'Big Water' terrain that primarily encompasses fleet 'hide and seek.' Even with ten fleets per side. I'll concentrate on following the established and accepted format. I will have to learn how layers work.

Again, thanks for taking the time to illustrate what making a terrain means from the perspective of a successful builder.  :)

Offline bustr

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Re: Teaching myself terrain building .... slowly .... painfully
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2018, 04:07:46 PM »
I use Paint.Net because it's free. When you open the work space you will see a layers window in lower right hand corner. Open the blue png file, then the green plus adds a layer. Set the focus to the new layer then copy and paste the next file onto that layer. Do that for the rest of the files. You can use the up and down arrows to move the order and see how things get hidden and revealed. Just remember to make sure the layer you want to work with is highlighted in the list. Still you have a back button to clear up boo boos like that.

Add a new layer to build your islands on and you are off................
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline Arlo

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Re: Teaching myself terrain building .... slowly .... painfully
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2018, 04:10:48 PM »
I've been a Gimp user for sometime. It does layers, as well. I just never bothered to learn what they were for. Are you familiar with this program and do you think it'll work as well as Paint.Net?

Offline bustr

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Re: Teaching myself terrain building .... slowly .... painfully
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2018, 04:36:53 PM »
It will rock and there are many GIMP users in our ranks. If you ask they will respond...... :lol
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline 8thJinx

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Re: Teaching myself terrain building .... slowly .... painfully
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2018, 05:52:48 PM »
Paint.net is pretty durned good.  I've never used GIMP tho.
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Offline Devil 505

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Re: Teaching myself terrain building .... slowly .... painfully
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2018, 11:54:25 PM »
I've been a Gimp user for sometime. It does layers, as well. I just never bothered to learn what they were for. Are you familiar with this program and do you think it'll work as well as Paint.Net?

I use GIMP for 99% of all my skin work. It should work fine for you.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2018, 11:57:29 PM by Devil 505 »
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Offline popeye

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Re: Teaching myself terrain building .... slowly .... painfully
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2018, 08:03:19 AM »
So, I'm retiring soon and thought I'd take a shot at making a map.  However, I can't seem to get past the first step.  I am following the procedure outlined in Easyscor's manual:  create some land, add terrain, add an airfield, then make a map.  I rename the map and go back into the TE and... no map.  The map file is in the correct folder, but the map doesn't appear in the TE.  Not sure what I am doing wrong.
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