Author Topic: Gv dar  (Read 9246 times)

Offline molybdenum

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Re: Gv dar
« Reply #30 on: February 09, 2018, 06:57:45 PM »
The GV dar would only visible on you clipboard map if you are on the ground. It would not be visible on the map if you are in the air.  So if you are in a GV or manned gun you would see the GV dar just like being in a GV. So it would change anything  :salute

What I meant was that if anyone could just pop into a manned gun and discover if there was a GV close by, your otherwise excellent idea would be less so: an in tower player could make a brief tour of front line bases via manned guns and see if there were a GV without risking much time or any (virtual) life to do so. And then? "Cry Havoc, and let loose the Havocs!"  (A20s, my apologies to Shakespeare).
But if GVers are truly seeking a GV vs. GV fight, they don't normally call in bomb****s. They want to have their stealthy, mano a mano fun. And it's the A20 issue that to me makes the GV dar the antithesis to HT's stated desire to help people find a fight. Good GVers don't need a GV dar to find an enemy GV; and even average GVers probably wouldn't call an A20 in if they saw an enemy GV dar (because they want a fight, right? Not for someone else to easily kill something). And A20 vs. GV in my mind isn't a fight at all. It's either hide and seek or execution.

So, I really like your idea. It helps GVs find a fight, doesn't (at least initially) lead to bombs raining down on adventurous enemy GVs, loses the confounding illogic of a 23k plane being aware that there is a GV in the vicinity even though nothing is flashing, and preserves some of the stealthier aspects of the game that I and many others love without limiting GVers' ability to get some action. If HT's definition of "finding a fight" includes bombing defenseless GVs, then I guess your suggestion will probably never happen. But to my mind it strikes the best balance possible between HT's stated desire to help players fight while still preserving much of the strategic angle of the game that many of us love.

Offline Ciaphas

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Re: Gv dar
« Reply #31 on: February 09, 2018, 07:43:21 PM »
It seems to me that HiTech wants people to engage in all out war. That’s why we have missions, aircrates and ground rides. I could be wrong and that’s fine if I am but it feels like he is telling us that he wants to see battles that pull GV’rs, attack AC, bombers and fighters in to the fray. It makes sense from my position but then again I am not HiTech.


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Offline Rodent57

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Re: Gv dar
« Reply #32 on: February 10, 2018, 09:44:26 PM »
Dimebag was correct with his original post.


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Offline 100Coogn

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Re: Gv dar
« Reply #33 on: February 10, 2018, 09:49:04 PM »
Dimebag was correct with his original post.


PS Nice to see you on last night Dime!

Yes indeed.  His was a well thought out debate over GV Dar.
I'm glad I had a chance to read and review his opinion of the matter.  It really helped me to form my own opinion.  :rolleyes:

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Offline Rodent57

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Re: Gv dar
« Reply #34 on: February 10, 2018, 10:08:06 PM »
Lice Sucks,

Hemorrhoids Sucks,

GV Dar Sucks ...

IF it takes you more than that  I've got nothing that can help you other than ...

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Offline molybdenum

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Re: Gv dar
« Reply #35 on: February 11, 2018, 09:48:18 AM »
It seems to me that HiTech wants people to engage in all out war. That’s why we have missions, aircrates and ground rides. I could be wrong and that’s fine if I am but it feels like he is telling us that he wants to see battles that pull GV’rs, attack AC, bombers and fighters in to the fray. It makes sense from my position but then again I am not HiTech.

That's a reasonable guess.
What people don't seem to get is that what you guess actually happens after the kind of base takes I loved to engage in--either at the recently taken base (white-flagged and vulnerable) or at the next base over, as, the opportunity for stealth now gone, I and whomever I could scrape together tried to mount an offensive before the bad guys could react. Sometimes it worked, most times it didn't, but action virtually always ensued. And that's what HT's after, right?

I still really like Copprhead's idea. I hope HT at least considers it. It ought to go a long way toward making the GV dar tolerable to the many players who dislike it.

Offline Dundee

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Re: Gv dar
« Reply #36 on: February 12, 2018, 01:29:02 PM »
See Rule #4


« Last Edit: February 13, 2018, 06:37:23 AM by Skuzzy »

Offline noman

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Re: Gv dar
« Reply #37 on: February 12, 2018, 02:42:03 PM »
No just your general attitude sucks Dundee. "OH WOE IS ME I CAN'T DRIVE TO THE HQ ANYMORE"  :cry :cry :cry. Just play the game or don't play but quit whining about it.
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Offline gpcustom

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Re: Gv dar
« Reply #38 on: February 13, 2018, 06:54:06 AM »
Well I come back after a break(bro06562) and I see the GV dar thread is still alive which means the Dar is alive :joystick:
Hmmmmmm interesting  :O
Do we really need to make it even easier to kill GVs in the game? Not challenging anyone just not really sure what was exactly broken in the old format where you had to listen and hunt for a kill. I understand a Dar but me thinkith a ground dar in WWII was a bit far fetched :old:
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Offline noman

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Re: Gv dar
« Reply #39 on: February 13, 2018, 07:33:24 AM »

Do we really need to make it even easier to kill GVs in the game? Not challenging anyone just not really sure what was exactly broken in the old format where you had to listen and hunt for a kill.

If you think it is easy to still kill a GV with GV dar then you haven't played. With the terrain the way it is, it's still hard to find another gv that is not moving. You could drive right by them and not even know it. And planes not even storches can find a well hidden m3 or lvt in the trees.
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Offline gpcustom

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Re: Gv dar
« Reply #40 on: February 13, 2018, 08:00:10 AM »
If you think it is easy to still kill a GV with GV dar then you haven't played. With the terrain the way it is, it's still hard to find another gv that is not moving. You could drive right by them and not even know it. And planes not even storches can find a well hidden m3 or lvt in the trees.
Don't think I said anything like that but yeah I think I understand how the game works after 15 years of on line play here. I might not post much but I more than understand how the game works. Once again it seems a bit of a exploit to show GV presence and assist a lack of skill :t
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Offline Arlo

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Re: Gv dar
« Reply #41 on: February 13, 2018, 08:58:17 AM »
Once again it seems a bit of a exploit to show GV presence and assist a lack of skill

On whose part? Seems a skillful GVer can overcome having their general presence in a rough vicinity known.  ;)

Offline noman

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Re: Gv dar
« Reply #42 on: February 13, 2018, 10:15:40 AM »
Do we really need to make it even easier to kill GVs in the game?
« Last Edit: February 13, 2018, 11:05:49 AM by noman »
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Offline eddiek

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Re: Gv dar
« Reply #43 on: February 13, 2018, 10:46:02 AM »
 My first thought is that some guys just like to gripe and complain, a lot.
Then I try to see their perspective. 
The game has evolved and changed over the years.  HiTech has done a masterful job of keeping the game alive.  Some will disagree, which is fine.  I just ask that they kindly post a link to the online game they created so we can see how things should be done, and send one to HT, too.  That way he can see all the things he's done wrong and see how the experts would do it.
Been here since early 2000, IIRC.  The game was more......."pure" back then, I feel.
Everyone just came in wanting to engage in combat, fight it out, get back in another plane or tank and go at it again.
Can't remember the exact year, but some of the ground pounders began complaining about the planes coming in and killing their tanks and vehicles (imagine that, in a combat game, some guy killed them?).
One of the complaints that sticks with me is a player complaining about the planes killing him and his perk tank......"might as well not even get it off the base, cause they will kill me and I'll lose my perk points", not the exact quote, more of a paraphrase there.....
So, GV icon range, after pages and pages of debate, was reduced from 6K (which was too much) to 1.5K or less...........which is was too little.
Furballs were not as much fun, it seemed, after that, cause once a player lost the advantage, he would run to........guess what? An Osty or M16 (think this was pre-Wirb days) and the pursuer suddenly found himself surrounded by enemy AA fire, or just back in the tower.
Fast forward a year or two or three, and now you see the numbers in the arenas are down.  Not sure if it was directly because of that, but one squad that I flew with for several years expressed their dissatisfaction with the way the game had turned, and gradually they all left......I'm the only one left.
IMO, when HT began giving in to one segment of the player base, to the detriment of the others......the fundamental part of the game that had attracted so many to log in and fly changed, and not for the better.
All the eye candy in the world won't counteract poor gameplay, or "iffy" behavior, for lack of a better phrase.
It's HT's game, his rules, his playground when it all comes down to the facts.  So we can improvise, adapt, and overcome any changes, or just quit and move one. 
Having said all that, I don't care one way or the other about GV dar.  It lets me know a GV is "somewhere" in the area, which is useful and needed.  But with all the trees in the AH3 terrains, and the ability for GV's to hide from aircraft and other GV's alike, it's nothing more than an indicator.  I can't pinpoint the GV location, still have to fly a search grid and hope that if it's an AA vehicle I see him in time. 
Wanna even things out, make it "fair" for everyone?  Try this:
#1--Clear out the trees and shrubs on the bases, AND around them.  A "tree free" zone of one mile all around all the bases would be a nice start.  I know bustr is working on new terrains, hopefully his efforts will satisfy HT's map requirements and still enable the GV's to do their thing. 
#2--Redo the base defenses.  More AT weapons sighted on or near the perimeter of the bases.  AA weapons toward the center. 
#3--Take the AI defense back where they used to be.  With reduced player numbers, there are too many undefended bases that can and are captured without so much as a defensive shot being fired.  The tendency anymore seems to be to attack undefended bases.  Increase AI's role in holding the line til human players can jump in and start defending the bases themselves.  I've seen GV's drive right past defensive weapons, and never have a shot fired at them.  "Back in the day" the auto guns were fearsome, and you had to be careful when approaching any and all bases.
#4--Do something about the view from the 17pdr AT gun.  You can only see straight ahead, really?
#5--Add some sort of useful gunsight to the 88mm.  The circle might do it for AA work, but for AT firing, no.
#6--Icon range:  Find a happy medium........1.5K is too short, 6K was far too long.  Split the difference and use 3K.  Make icon range between aircraft and GV's equidistant.  Plane can't see the GV icon til 3K, GV can't see the enemy plane icon til 3K.    Do away with GV dar. 
#7--Last but not least, and I know HT is working on it.......add the roads.  The road system if implement correctly, would allow GV's to hit top speed while on the roads, reduced speed while moving cross country or off road.  Go cross country a lot, and face the danger of getting bogged down or stuck, just like real life.

None of these suggestions will be implemented, I know.  Just felt like chiming in to the conversation.
Most sorties I don't even consider bombs or rockets, cause air to ground is not what I log in hoping to do.  It's when a base is threatened by GV's that I find myself loading up with bombs/rockets and playing with the GV guys. 
Last resort, one that I think has been tried, but was not too successful, is place islands with GV bases on them where aircraft can't reach them, and allow the GV guys to do their thing with little or no interference.  Put redwood forests on them so they can hide and shoot, but if they venture onto the parts of the maps where aircraft usually play, the gloves come off and they are just as exposed as their aerial nemeses.

Gonna take a break and put on the Nomex............something tells me there will be flames now........... :bolt:

Offline wil3ur

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Re: Gv dar
« Reply #44 on: February 13, 2018, 10:59:01 AM »
Don't think I said anything like that but yeah I think I understand how the game works after 15 years of on line play here. I might not post much but I more than understand how the game works. Once again it seems a bit of a exploit to show GV presence and assist a lack of skill :t

Have you played since AH3?  They literally disappear behind tree masking layers and cannot be seen, even with the planes designed to spot them flying directly over them within 800 yards (supposed to have 3K icon distance).  Even with the dar, they're still practically impossible to find if stopped and shut down.
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