How can this be put nicely?

[Arlo]

1) There were no attacking forces. Nothing was being attacked--or even flashing--so there ought to have been no way for anyone to have known a GV was there.

Technically, one enemy GV qualifies as 'an attacking force.' Soldiers on patrol, citizens in the town, farmers or herders nearby may be able to tell that the GV belongs to 'the other guys' (even though AH distributes equipment equally).

HQ: Hello, General Melchett's office, Captain Darling speaking.

Herder: Hello, Darling. A tank ran over my sheep. Who's gonna pay for that?

Darling: Where did this happen?

Herder: Ten miles north of the village.

Darling (covering receiver): Corporal Baldrick, are there any armored vehicles operating north of town?

Baldrick: Theirs or ours?

Darling: Ours!

Baldrick: Today?

Darling: Today!

Baldrick: Not operating, sir.

Darling: Are there any parked?

Baldrick: Theirs or ours?

Darling (to herder): This may require compensation from another source. (hangs up)

General alarm, sector three!

[The Fugitive]

1) There were no attacking forces. Nothing was being attacked--or even flashing--so there ought to have been no way for anyone to have known a GV was there. Yet I, at 23k on my way to the strats, knew. That doesn't compute.

2) Here's another excerpt from a previous post of mine, concerning ords this time:
With the ammo strat tougher and (usually) harder to get to than before, ord bunker downtime is typically 30 minutes. I've mentioned before that it's hard to get a critical mass of people to each play a part in a base take, so you're right that "I" (as opposed to a teammate who probably won't be available) ought to hit ords before I roll a GV to a base.
Given the likely 30min downtime on the ord bunkers and the typical 7-10min drive to target, are you suggesting then that after I kill the ords at a base I should bail to up my GV? Is that kind of gameplay you encourage?

3) It does take long to understand. I'm not sure how HT is going to get people up and around that steep learning curve quickly enough to get them to stay past their two week trial. But the assist in finding a fight via GV dar is indeed slight and a number of long term players left the game because of it. There's got to be a better way.

Why does it sound like you dont want to run into ANY opposition? Whats the point of playing "the best WW2 and WW1 combat experience online!" if your looking to avoid everyone?

The point of the dar is to help players find action, not individual players. I dont see how the GV dar has done anything to stop players from playing any type of game they want. In the case of total avoidance of others, it's still possible it just takes a bit more work/strategy to do it.

[Chilli]

<snip>

Even the furballer types are invested in base captures - the difference is that we don't care about the result. We want the fight that should ensue from an honest capture attempt.

I have to coin that phrase, "honest capture attempt".  (definition:  a group gathered with a combined effort to accomplish the single task of placing 10 uninjured troops into an enemy's maproom)  Don't confuse this with the base "sneak".

Surprisingly, some of the folks that I would most expect to be offended by "gamey" base defense tactics have been  advocating for it.

  Continue down this path and .........  I won't be surprised to see only predominantly one type of player left in the MA, "win the map" at ALL costs.  This would be fine, if the rest would actually POPULATE some of the other arenas. 

[bustr]

It already is win the map at all costs stalled by don't give up my field at all costs. The M3 makes not giving it up a very powerful way to stall out winning maps and capturing very many fields in a night anymore.

My test on Oceania with 7 airfields per country having only a map room next to the tower to eliminate the solo M3 resupply hero's has been well received by the effort players put into capturing and defending them. Over the years I've observed players are happier when they feel they can win and accomplish things like rolling bases. Ten years ago that was the bread and butter of the MA for hundreds of players 7 days a week.

My new terrain I'm expanding this experiment to 50% of the airfields in each country. Some forum experts have disagreed with me about this but, I have not observed them for the last 15 months using terrain building for the MA to present experiments to the players to get a picture of what can be changed to promote activity. Opposed to their collective expert opinions by our group of experts who live permanently in these forums giving expert "opinions" about everything AH.

I removed the M3 resupply hero from 21 airfields and no one noticed or cares. They simply enjoy the activity and move on to the next field to capture. Hitech inspected that terrain and could have told me to put the M3 solo hero back into the mix for those 21 airfields.   

[molybdenum]

Why does it sound like you dont want to run into ANY opposition? Whats the point of playing "the best WW2 and WW1 combat experience online!" if your looking to avoid everyone?

The "if you like not fighting so much, you must have tons of fun offline, play there" crowd (which, to be fair, hasn't yet included you, but the above comment leans in that direction) doesn't get where I'm coming from, so I'll try an analogy maybe people like that can relate to.

Say you see a big red darbar building on the map and have figured out the target. Your teammates are either fighting on other fronts or simply outnumbered and the defensive response to this threat is minimal. So you decide to up a 262 and lay waste to the invaders and do what you can on your own. Do you up from the base you think the horde is heading for? Probably not: you want to have enough altitude and E to keep your lonely self alive when you do run into the bad guys. Get caught low and slow in your deuce and you're screwed.

So. When you get to target you've got a very few good guys and a whole lotta bad guys in front of you, and the alt and E you needed to make life difficult for the latter. You've got the fight you want. And if a bad guy shows up with alt and E on you, you're likely to want to use your plane's superior speed to clear your 6. But you still want a fight! You just want it on your terms, right? And when you think you've got enough E to re-engage successfully you'll be back.

I like a fight, too! But, like the 262 pilot, I want it on my terms. Remember that I'm "flying" an easily killable wirb or m3--no extending away from bad guys for me! All I have going for me is violence and stealth. The 262 pilot wanted altitude and E before he engaged his enemies; I want a chance for me and my meager crew of one or two to get the town white-flagged before I have to fight. The 262 pilot may or may not care if the base gets taken, but to me a sortie is pointless unless it serves some larger purpose for my team. If sneaks were the only things I ever did I'd understand the "hiding from a fight" accusations thrown so often my way. But I was a pretty well known player who often flew pretty killable buffs at pretty killable alts so the hiding thing simply doesn't ring true.

Having A20s waiting to bomb me before I could get to town happened often in the pre-GV darbar era, but that was part of the drama and kudos to the guy who figured out what I was up to before it became a real threat. Now there's much less opportunity for stealth--especially if players want to try to do something clever and skirt the target to come at it from an unexpected direction, or drive an m3 long distance--and for people like me that's a really major loss.

[bustr]

Hitech has reduced the available terrains to 10x10 or equivalent combat area so coming into anywhere from an unexpected direction is a canard. Especially with so many vets in the MA. The majority of the terrains are from AH2 and many of these guys have been playing on them up to 10 years month after month now. Even with radar down they have a very good idea where things are coming from becasue of experience. As for a single strat runner, they were ignoring you except for the small number who liked waiting for strat runners. And the current state of GV's, Hitech forgot to put in GVDAR for about 15 years now from something he mentioned in the alpha\beta testing. He was using the alpha\beta to test many things he wanted to put in the game all along over the years.

Welcome to GVDAR.

Stealth, you ever considered Hitech does not care about stealth? If he did we could have gotten him to raise the minimum radar level back to 200ft to facilitate stealth NOE missions and smash and grab base takes like we all avoided each other with back when there were up to 700 players in the arena some nights. The same ACM hero's from today complaining there are no fights were making the same complaints with 700 players. No one wanted to fight for anything or face them heads up. Hitech lowered the radar minimum becasue 700 players would hide from each other in the MA by running around NOE grabbing out of the way undefended airfields. And players just like yourself made the same stealth as strategy and survival argument as you are doing but, for "airplanes". So here we are full circle and now the argument is for GV stealth to hide from everyone and grab undefended feilds out of the way all over again.

[The Fugitive]

The "if you like not fighting so much, you must have tons of fun offline, play there" crowd (which, to be fair, hasn't yet included you, but the above comment leans in that direction) doesn't get where I'm coming from, so I'll try an analogy maybe people like that can relate to.

Say you see a big red darbar building on the map and have figured out the target. Your teammates are either fighting on other fronts or simply outnumbered and the defensive response to this threat is minimal. So you decide to up a 262 and lay waste to the invaders and do what you can on your own. Do you up from the base you think the horde is heading for? Probably not: you want to have enough altitude and E to keep your lonely self alive when you do run into the bad guys. Get caught low and slow in your deuce and you're screwed.

So. When you get to target you've got a very few good guys and a whole lotta bad guys in front of you, and the alt and E you needed to make life difficult for the latter. You've got the fight you want. And if a bad guy shows up with alt and E on you, you're likely to want to use your plane's superior speed to clear your 6. But you still want a fight! You just want it on your terms, right? And when you think you've got enough E to re-engage successfully you'll be back.

I like a fight, too! But, like the 262 pilot, I want it on my terms. Remember that I'm "flying" an easily killable wirb or m3--no extending away from bad guys for me! All I have going for me is violence and stealth. The 262 pilot wanted altitude and E before he engaged his enemies; I want a chance for me and my meager crew of one or two to get the town white-flagged before I have to fight. The 262 pilot may or may not care if the base gets taken, but to me a sortie is pointless unless it serves some larger purpose for my team. If sneaks were the only things I ever did I'd understand the "hiding from a fight" accusations thrown so often my way. But I was a pretty well known player who often flew pretty killable buffs at pretty killable alts so the hiding thing simply doesn't ring true.

Having A20s waiting to bomb me before I could get to town happened often in the pre-GV darbar era, but that was part of the drama and kudos to the guy who figured out what I was up to before it became a real threat. Now there's much less opportunity for stealth--especially if players want to try to do something clever and skirt the target to come at it from an unexpected direction, or drive an m3 long distance--and for people like me that's a really major loss.

The whole 262 scenario doesnt work for me as I'd come in at 5k with may head on fire to take out as many guys as I could. The perks dont matter nor does the "death". I'd be in for the fight. A couple months ago I was defending a base in a pnzer. For the most part I suck in GVs but I get lucky now and then. I shot down 3 or 4, a couple being M3s and at least 3 proxies as the Bish hit the town with their typical skill  They captured the base and I spent the next 20-40 dodgin a number of "hunters" looking for my panzer. Jumping tree grove to tree grove I evaded a couple of tanks and a number of planes looking to drop some bombs on my head. They finally gave up and I got a green "end sortie" and did so.

So no I did not save the base, nor was I in a position to slow the hit on the next base, but I did have a heck of a lot of fun evading the hunt to land my kills. So I know it CAN be done. If a GV dweeb like me can do it, a pro like you and others can do it. I just think you and the other who complain of the changes just dont want to be bothered with "working at it". So many other changes have effected the "fighter guys", or the Bomber guys" and yet we continue on. Do I like all the changes we  have had over the years, no, but as everyone says, "adapt, over come".

It is what it is. So it takes away the single sneak, what does dar look like if you have 3 other friends in the same area? One square of dar, 4 tanks in the same area, SURPRISE!

[scott66]

Is that the night you landed 10 kills lol

[The Fugitive]

Is that the night you landed 10 kills lol

yup. 

[molybdenum]

The whole 262 scenario doesnt work for me as I'd come in at 5k with may head on fire to take out as many guys as I could...
So no I did not save the base, nor was I in a position to slow the hit on the next base, but I did have a heck of a lot of fun evading the hunt to land my kills. So I know it CAN be done. If a GV dweeb like me can do it, a pro like you and others can do it. I just think you and the other who complain of the changes just dont want to be bothered with "working at it". So many other changes have effected the "fighter guys", or the Bomber guys" and yet we continue on. Do I like all the changes we  have had over the years, no, but as everyone says, "adapt, over come".

It is what it is. So it takes away the single sneak, what does dar look like if you have 3 other friends in the same area? One square of dar, 4 tanks in the same area, SURPRISE!

1) Yeah, I guessed that the 262 analogy didn't match you well (because you're totally fine with fighting and dying daringly in a perk plane) but hopefully people who fly it in a more traditional manner got at least a smidgen of understanding from my attempt to explain it from a perspective they'd relate to better.
2) Here's another place where we differ. You had fun "evading the hunt to land my kills." Sure, it's nice to land a lot of kills, I don't deny it: but I'd much rather be doing something more productive. I'm not going to tower when someone's looking for me--that wouldn't be fair to him. And I'm not going to give him a kill. So I'm stuck in a mostly tedious attempt to find a green end sortie when I could be blowing stuff and bad guys up.
3) I successfully "adapted and overcame" the major changes from AH2 to AH3 as a bomber pilot, even though they, like the GV dar, favored fighters over bombers and I disliked many of them. But the GV dar as currently instituted changes the game in a fundamental way, and no amount of effort on my part will let me do what I most liked doing any more. Furthermore, the primary mapmaker for AH3 has repeatedly (even joyfully!) announced that he's deliberately creating maps to make both bombing strats and GVing sneakily more difficult, and those were two of my three favorite things. Why should players like me stick around? It's like we're being pushed out the door.

I can't speak for the others who dislike the GV dar as much as I do, but it's not that I didn't want to be bothered with trying to find a way to take a base with GVs despite its existence. There isn't a way that doesn't require lots of GVs, with fighter cover on top of that to menace the inevitable bomb****s, etc.  Who can gather a sizable crew together like that nowadays? And isn't that the antithesis of the strategy and stealth aspect of the game I found compelling anyway?

[Dundee]

Be careful what you wish for.

When HT tested neutering m3s for a month, there was a great deal of unhappiness. Several people threatened to cancel their subscriptions if turned out to be permanent.
Then HT instituted the GV dar. Many players teetering on the edge of unsubscription fell into the abyss.
It is changes like this--trying to make players play the way you'd like rather than the way that they like--that has cost HT a substantial # of long term subscribers.
If HT is trying to transition his game into a far more fighter-oriented endeavor, then that's his call. But things like what you are hinting at will further erode the long term player base, thus lowering player numbers even more (and making it even harder for people to find a fight).

Is that really what you want?

I agree with your observations.... the game is being steered in a direction and the means by which that is being done has lead to some disgruntled players .. And claims of can't find a fight...well maybe there isn't one in the air. Maybe the folks on the ground are having it out in a GV battle. Trying to force one group to fight a different mode of combat is kind of counter productive. I would say the Dar, flashing bases and Green country com's should be all the tools you need to find a fight if there is one. taking fun out of one facet of the game to feed another is not the way to fix anything

[DmonSlyr]

There's only so much you can do. If there is a huge tank fight on the map, but you only see a flashing base. How do you know there is a huge tank fight?

If everyone is in tanks and there is very small and lack of fighter dars, how do you know there is big action on the map?

If you are a new player, and only see small dars, and/or only flashing bases, how do they know there is a large tank fight? After flying at a base with a small dar, for 15 minutes, and can't find someone. What do you think they will do?

Tanks have to show some action on the map in order to make the map look like there is action. Not many people will roll without spotting any action in the map.

[Lazerr]

I would assume following the concentrated number of friendly gv icons will get you close to the tank fight.

Hopefully the new guys you mention arent using a mouse, hence the most recent steam review.

I would leave the same review after the new mouse controls were laid out especially in gunner positions.  Im not the guy thats going to trash a game ive been playing this long on steam though.  Hopefully some of my posts have been seen, and may be being addressed.

If ive been using this setup for 17 years and I cant figure it out, how do you think the new guy will do?



Getting rid of mouse commander was a great first step, the other changes, not so much.  The rudder control on the ground using aileron input is kind of neat too i guess.

Keep in mind i had to change a lot of mouse settings just to make it usable.

But using gunner positions is just silly as is. 2/3 of the game is literally ubplayable (successfully) using a mouse.  This rules out bombing.. unable to gun, and tanking, unable to aim.

Going to try a fresh install eventually just to see what the default.controls are for a new guy using a mouse.  Hopefully better than mine.   

Keep in mind they get two weeks in a populated arena to not only get their settings usable, but then try to figure out a pretty complex game.

[DmonSlyr]

I would assume following the concentrated number of friendly gv icons will get you close to the tank fight.

Hopefully the new guys you mention arent using a mouse, hence the most recent steam review.

I would leave the same review after the new mouse controls were laid out especially in gunner positions.  Im not the guy thats going to trash a game ive been playing this long on steam though.  Hopefully some of my posts have been seen, and may be being addressed.

If ive been using this setup for 17 years and I cant figure it out, how do you think the new guy will do?



Getting rid of mouse commander was a great first step, the other changes, not so much.  The rudder control on the ground using aileron input is kind of neat too i guess.

Keep in mind i had to change a lot of mouse settings just to make it usable.

But using gunner positions is just silly as is. 2/3 of the game is literally ubplayable (successfully) using a mouse.  This rules out bombing.. unable to gun, and tanking, unable to aim.

Going to try a fresh install eventually just to see what the default.controls are for a new guy using a mouse.  Hopefully better than mine.   

Keep in mind they get two weeks in a populated arena to not only get their settings usable, but then try to figure out a pretty complex game.

Yeah, I completely follow you on that. Need in game tutorial for control setup and layout.

I don't really know why people aren't opening rooms like H2H use to be. Was great for figuring that stuff out quickly and having quick ffights. I hope the new match play layout will do that over time.  I agree with your 2 week analysis per undertsanding the game. Very hard to catch a large draw all playing at once to create a big fight. 2 weeks is over in a heart beat.

A 6 week free trial would get more people to subscribe and if not at least keep them in the game longer, which creates bigger fights.

[popeye]

A 6 week free trial would get more people to subscribe and if not at least keep them in the game longer, which creates bigger fights.

According to HTC, newbies are giving up after 20 minutes. (I've seen it happen several times.)

So, a 6 week free trial might be a good idea, but it isn't the complete solution.  Maybe new players should spawn into the front seat of an AT-6 for a "check ride" with an AI instructor to set up controls and at least get them off the runway.  Or, something...