Author Topic: What kind of aircraft are attacking Syria right now?  (Read 1455 times)

Offline DaveBB

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Re: What kind of aircraft are attacking Syria right now?
« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2018, 08:13:14 AM »
Typhoons were used too.

Syrian air defences must not have been very strong or SEAD aircraft would have already destroyed those SAM sites.
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Offline Zimme83

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Re: What kind of aircraft are attacking Syria right now?
« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2018, 08:42:47 AM »
All missiles where fired from outside the range of the air defense. Seems like the Syrians fired ~40 SAM:s of various types but most of them where fired after the strike and did not threatened or hit anything.

The syrians seems to have quite a lot of soviet era SAM:s (SA-2, SA-3,SA-5, SA-6 etc), which are largely ineffective against modern missiles and fighters.
They also have some newer SA-11 (BUK) batteries.

While having enough batteries to make it dangerous, as we saw during the israeli strike, I doubt that they would be capable of defending the air space if they faced a full scale attack. There would be losses among the attackers but it wouldnt be nearly enough.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2018, 08:54:30 AM by Zimme83 »
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Offline Spikes

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Re: What kind of aircraft are attacking Syria right now?
« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2018, 11:08:00 AM »
YES! lets launch a political thread!  unbelievable!
Only if you make it political.
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Offline Vraciu

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Re: What kind of aircraft are attacking Syria right now?
« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2018, 11:08:06 AM »
YES! lets launch a political thread!  unbelievable!

You okay, bruh?

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Offline DaveBB

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Re: What kind of aircraft are attacking Syria right now?
« Reply #19 on: April 14, 2018, 11:18:07 AM »
These Syrian missiles are hitting something.  You can see them tracking and exploding.  Some are high, some are pretty low to the ground.  A couple appear to have been shot ballistically.

https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=9gZF6_1523707828

At 2:44 it looks like a jet got hit.
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Offline Gman

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Re: What kind of aircraft are attacking Syria right now?
« Reply #20 on: April 14, 2018, 12:15:37 PM »
Difficult to say what the SAMS are actually hitting - pretty standard for the USAF/USN/USMC to use "bait" to stimulate the air defenses and make them focus on cheap drones/cruise systems, which makes the SAM systems engage unimportant targets, waste ammunition on them, as well as helps overwhelm the human element in the kill chain.  So, while it's certainly possible that the newer stuff like the S300 and S400 variants in Syria, and other newer Buk systems, can perhaps take out the "new and smart" (haha) cruise missiles in certain parts of their flight profile, IMO it's more likely that the intercepts caught on video are mostly the SAM systems taking out targets that were sent to be taken out by SAMS intentionally. 

The SAMS can also be command detonated, at least the S300/400 can, and some of the explosions in the sky can be the system or operator doing that for various reasons.

edit - most of the explosions/possible intercepts I've seen video of look to be at 2000ft AGL or even higher. Low altitude is still something that even stealthy cruise missiles will probably be taking advantage of, which makes me think that the stuff up higher (not NOE) is even more likely to be bait intentionally placed there. 

edit2 - detailed briefing on the platforms and missiles used, and the general giving it claims no missiles were intercepted by Syrian defenses.

Combination of JASSM, Tomahawk, Scalp, and Storm Shadow missiles from the USN, USAF, RAF and French Air Force.  USS Monterey(Tico class), USS Laboon(Burke), USS Higgens(Burke), Languedoc (French Navy/Scalp), USS John Warner (Virginia class, two B1B, Tornado/Typhoon, Rafale/Mirage.  No friendly losses reported, and again, claims that all missiles reached their targets.  Also stated was Syria fired over 40 SAMS, and most were fired after the last incoming cruise missile had already reached its target.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2018, 12:34:49 PM by Gman »

Offline TyFoo

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Re: What kind of aircraft are attacking Syria right now?
« Reply #21 on: April 14, 2018, 01:11:25 PM »


I know the Navy really doesn't have aircraft capable of penetrating enemy air defenses on day 1 of an attack.


I am curious as to what makes you say that?

Offline Vraciu

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Re: What kind of aircraft are attacking Syria right now?
« Reply #22 on: April 14, 2018, 04:57:51 PM »
I am curious as to what makes you say that?

He’s probably referring to a Tier 1 Air defenses.  The Super Hornet’s ability to penetrate denial of access areas is approaching obsolescence.
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Offline zack1234

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Re: What kind of aircraft are attacking Syria right now?
« Reply #23 on: April 15, 2018, 04:49:19 AM »
How many claims of shoot downs?

Its in the stats, i shot down a 109 yesterday :old:
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Offline DaveBB

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Re: What kind of aircraft are attacking Syria right now?
« Reply #24 on: April 15, 2018, 11:37:06 AM »
I am curious as to what makes you say that?

What are the things you want when you penetrate enemy airspace?
- To be in enemy airspace for the shortest amount of time possible (speed)
- To show up on enemy radar for the least amount of time or not at all (low observability)
- To have support aircraft as far from enemy defenses as possible (range)
- To be able able to counter enemy air defenses if detected (electronic warfare, jamming, air to air)

The Air Force has the best combination for this: B-1bs, F-22s, and B-2s.  Especially with the B-1b. A bomber doing almost mach 1 at a couple hundred feet while using terrain following radar with it's own onboard electronic warfare officer.  Tanker before you go in and tanker after you get out.  Low, fast, hard to detect, capable of jamming, hard to intercept.  The old F-111 was very good at this too.

The Navy has a highly observable, short ranged, relatively slow multi-purpose fighter.  Sure, they have tanker and electronic warfare versions of the F/A-18, but relative to land based aircraft they just aren't as good.

All my opinions are presented as an amateur.  Take it with a grain of salt. 
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Offline icepac

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Re: What kind of aircraft are attacking Syria right now?
« Reply #25 on: April 15, 2018, 11:41:39 AM »
Regardless of missile shootdown claims, the targets were destroyed.

Offline DaveBB

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Re: What kind of aircraft are attacking Syria right now?
« Reply #26 on: April 15, 2018, 12:13:21 PM »
What were the targets specifically? We saw the power go off.  That's about the only objective evidence we have.
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Offline Zimme83

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Re: What kind of aircraft are attacking Syria right now?
« Reply #27 on: April 15, 2018, 01:15:09 PM »
A chemical weapons factory and some command centers it seems, but I doubt that any real damage was done since they where probably already empty.
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Offline MiloMorai

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Re: What kind of aircraft are attacking Syria right now?
« Reply #28 on: April 15, 2018, 03:21:36 PM »
A Russian on another board (Tanknet) claims 7 of 30 missiles shot down attacking the chem place. Other missiles shot down attacking other targets.
Me thinks he is drinking some of that special juice.

"Strike lay down from Pentagon - 107 missiles (though Dunford added this to 105)

From the Red Sea
Ticonderoga Cruiser Monterey - 32 TLAM
Arleigh Burke destroyer Laboon – 7 TLAM

North Arabian Gulf
Burke-class destroyer Higgins - 23 TLAM

Eastern Med
French FFG (Aquitaine) - 3 MdCN Naval version of Scalp
Virginia-class SSN John Warner - 6 TLAM

Airpower
2x B-1B lancer bombers fired 19 JASSM-ER missiles
British Tornados and Typhoons 4x fired 8 Stormshadow ALCMs
French combination of Rafales and Mirages fired 9 SCALP ALCMs

Variety of defensive counter air, tanker, and electronic attack aircraft involved. No successful Syrian air defense engagement, and no indication Russian air defenses were engaged.
Syria fired 40 SAMs, but they were fired long after cruise missiles struck, and on a ballistic trajectory without guidance. Basically shooting blind."

Offline ACE

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Re: What kind of aircraft are attacking Syria right now?
« Reply #29 on: April 15, 2018, 09:06:52 PM »
Sooooo basically Russia just was bluffing when they claimed if we engaged there would be consequences. Figured that.
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