Author Topic: Black Sea Frame 2 AAR  (Read 3160 times)

Offline funkedup

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Black Sea Frame 2 AAR
« on: January 04, 2002, 11:05:00 PM »
FunkedUp-CFIT
Kbman-Wizzer
Durr-Hazed

No victories.
6 planes lost.

Took off from A18 in La-5FN with bombs and hit assigned target A47.  Someone before us had de-acked A47 and we made quick work of the hangars and remaining structures.  But most of us had very little ammo left.

Our secondary target was D44 so I decided we would refuel at A8.  Bad decision.

We ran into some dots south of V26 and CFIT and I peeled off to investigate.  At the same time we got a report of low 109s at A8.  I gave Durr and Kbman free reign to engage at A8.  

I was on my way back to them but they were already engaged just NNW of A8.  The 109s (6-8 of them)weren't low at all, in fact most of them were above us.  Kbman and Wizzer were engaged above the clouds while Durr and Hazed were nowhere to be found.

We were low on ammo and fuel and the ack was up at A8 and the situation did not look good.  So I called for our planes to head there, fly through the ack, and wait for Jerry to get bored or run out of fuel.  

I chased a couple of bandits that were behind Kbman and Wizzer but more bandits got on me.  Next thing I knew KB was down.

Wizzer, CFIT, and I got to A8.  Durr and Hazed were still not visible and Wizzer went in to refuel.  CFIT and I stayed up to cover Wizzer and fought off a couple of attacks from the 109s.  I only had about 40 cannon rounds after my strafing attacks so all I could do was scare them with a short burst.

Durr and Hazed finally reappeared but instead of heading for the safety of A8 they continued to press the fight against the more numerous and higher 109s.  Wizzer finished refueling and went right into the fight, dying promptly.  Hazed and Durr went down shortly thereafter.

CFIT and I were both out of ammo and nearly out of fuel.  There were only two 109s at this point so I thought me might be able to land and refuel or exit.  But CFIT ran out of fuel and was rammed by a 109 while trying to land.  I ran out of fuel right after him and was vulched going over the threshold.

Things we did wrong:
- I split us up to chase the mystery dots near V26.  This put us in a lousy posture to meet the bandits near A8.
- I cleared Element leads to engage 109s when our fuel/ammo situation was not good.
- Element leads waited too long (or never even tried) to disengage from the bad situation with 109s.  La-5FN can dive away from them easily.

[ 01-05-2002: Message edited by: funkedup ]

Offline sax

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Black Sea Frame 2 AAR
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2002, 11:48:00 PM »
Tas ran sweep between A18 and A45.

Split up to cover more territory.
Beemer and Sax joined furball at 18 while YGSmilo and Vruth covered A45.

2 kills at 18, back to 45 with Drill's squad to help with cons reported there.
Lost Vruth, Milo and Beemer got one more 109 each, Sax possible 0ne.

Sax engine damage, rtb to 45.

Beemer and Milo rtb 18. Beemer one more possible kill of 109 at 18. Milo damaged plane on landing pad :(. Beemer got down safe just before major dump.

Confirmed 4 kills, possible 6.

Sax

Offline FDutchmn

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« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2002, 04:00:00 AM »
Nightmares sat around in the ready room waiting anxiously for our mission to be set.  In the meantime, we welcomed two pilots, Fester and Drex, to wing with us.  After a long wait, orders came through the wire... Orders for the Nightmares were as follows:

 
Quote
To the Commanding Officer of VMF-101 Nightmares:
You are to launch Bf109G2 aircraft from A3 and provide defence of D44.  Loadout at CO discretion.  Recommend DT but no gondolas.  Conduct best climb to altitude using WEP.  Target alt for CAP is 25,000ft.  Provide a defensive screen N and Ne of D44.

La5FN fighter aircraft are expected to launch from A19 to the NE.  Expect to see these aircraft at high altitude.  Enemy attack aircraft are operating in the area.  Main threats are il2 and Yak 9T aircraft from A8 (NNE).


Immediately, a heated discussion broke out on the load out and the capabilities of the plane.  "How is the performance of the Bf109G-2?" "How long does fuel last?" "Should we carry on gondolas?  How much performance does it affect?"  "How does it compare with the La5FNs?"

Initial recommendations were not to carry gondolas as it would affect performance and comparative analysis showed La5FNs were simply superior to the Bf109G-2s.  Concerns were raised although we were still undeterred from our intention of doing inflicting the most possible damage to the Russians.  Our leader, Ghost Dancer, showed no signs of fear and remained confident.

During the briefing, the spirit was high.  We were exchanging beer cans from all over.  A late analysis was presented which showed that gondolas do not affect performance of the Bf109G-2 as much as feared.  Recommendations turned to installing the gondolas with a fuel tank of gas and drop tanks.  I was assigned to wing with Dobe.  A total of 17 Nightmares were listed to fly that morning.

We took off from A3 South without incident, and we continued to climb and circle around D44.  When we got to the east side of D44, contact were reported on the northern side of the front.  We were directed further and further north which raised concerns that we were directed too far away from our primary objective.  We passed by A8 which should no signs of the enemy.  When orders came to head back south, contact was reported over V27.  I found myself close to V27 together with Dobe, Fester and Drex.  I asked permission to go check it out.  Clearance came for the four of us to detach and go scope for the enemy.  Flying at 25k, we soon spotted three dots low just over the clouds.  I sent Fester and Drex to engage.  Keeping my altitude, I watched them race toward the enemy, forgetting about the con range of the arena.  While typing in reports I lost them.  Fester soon reported that they were La5s and they were running.  I ordered them to break off the chase.  However, as soon as Fester broke off, he was engaged.  I dove immediately in a frantic effort to look for them, with only a vague idea on where they were.  20K... 15K... 10K... I spotted dots just below the edge of the clouds and on a hunch, I raced towards them.  Just west of A8, Fester and Drex were dancing with several La5s.  As I got to the con range of the La5 with Dobe in tow, I saw Fester*s plane spewing out smoke.  I ordered Dobe to engage and tried to clear Fester's six.  I knew I was asking for trouble when I was getting low.  A low altitude dance continued when I learned that there were at least three of them.  I radioed for help as I was sure that if we didn't gain more advantage, we would all be wiped out.  Soon Fester met his fate and Dobe was also hit.  I finally managed to get on the six of one of them and blew him out of the sky.  Then I saw Dobe in tow of another La5 which was smoking.  I turned around only to see Dobe go down.  In vengeance, I gain the six of the La5 and put enough shells into him to break half his left wing.  I broke off satisfied that he would crash.  I soon caught a glimpse of BFD, and I ordered Drex to form up and grab.  We were clear of the bogeys.

Drex reported downing two and I had two kills. (although reviewing the film, Drex downed the La5 with the broken wing, therefore we shared one kill)  As soon as we got to the clouds, we turned around to engage again.  I soon found a melee with the rest of the Nightmares.  Moments passed dodging the enemy, grabbing altitude and soon we were running out of fuel.  We were ordered back to A3 for refueling.  Drex bagged another while clearing the six of Pyroman.  Initial reports indicated that we downed 8 to 10 La5s at the cost of four of our planes.  (Is the Bf109G-2 really that inferior?  The final tally will tell)

On the way back, BFD's ejection seat malfunctioned and put him into the sky unintentionally.  Pyroman ran out of fuel and ditched, Concho failed his landing while gliding his fuelless plane into A3.  Orvil ditched his due to lack gears.

We re-upped at least seven Nightmares for which I was in charge.  Our mission was to kill the Il2s.  However, the cloud cover was hindering us from finding any.  I sent Plink to go low and report any contact.  Reports came of contacts at A42.  Once again fearing that leaving D44 will put it in danger, I directed our flight toward A42.  We walked from base to base, D75... nothing, A8... nothing, V26... nothing, V35... nothing..., A46... nothing.  Finally, at A42, Plink reported contacts most of them refueling at A42!  Now is the chance to get them.  I ordered the main flight down to cloud level.  I found some La5s on CAP.  I broke low and headed toward A42.  Several La5s were taking off, braving compression and the hail of acks, I downed one La5s on first pass, taking a hit from the ack.  On second pass, I braved compression and acks again, taking more hits in the process but failing to hit any.  I zoomed up to regain altitude, then a dialog box came up "Host Error: Disconnected".  

I was frustrated beyond belief.... I was having so much fun.  Oh well...

Offline AKcurly

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Black Sea Frame 2 AAR
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2002, 05:25:00 AM »
The AKs and their guests were slated to drive panzers this frame and our situation was FUBARED beyond belief.  

V34 had a problem, so panzers couldn't spawn. Since we couldn't launch panzers from v27 (cuz there were no panzers at v34), they put us in 109s and split us between two areas.  

It was certainly better than not participating, but not knowing the objectives / flight paths of the groups we were supposed to join made for an evening below par for TOD.

I have several suggestions.  All of us had previously downloaded the blacksea terrain, but all of us faced a download when we logged into TOD.  Evidently, the terrain had been patched.

1. If you know we're going to face a terrain download, warn us before hand.

2. Test the VH and AH before you let squads invest time and energy in making plans.  You don't have to test the entire terrain, just the affected hangars.

curly

Offline ~Pyroman~

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Black Sea Frame 2 AAR
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2002, 07:38:00 AM »
Actually Curly they did make a post about the black sea being updated in the TOD BBS.  They told us we needed to download it again.

Just so you know bro.    :)

Great job tonight Axis and Allies I had a ball even knowing there were server problems.  This gets better week after week.

Oh and BTW, FD you can write a mean AAR my friend...sheesh.   :D

Offline hazed-

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Black Sea Frame 2 AAR
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2002, 09:02:00 AM »
funkedup me and durr ran into 9+ 109s and only oncegot the oppertunity to exit but we grabbed and headed back toward some struggling squadmates.Unfortunately we got pounced on a seconds time.

btw I killed a 109 and i think durr did too.

Offline FDutchmn

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« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2002, 09:13:00 AM »
Quote
Oh and BTW, FD you can write a mean AAR my friend...sheesh.  :D  

Oh man!! I forgot to add the part about our fearless leader, Ghost Dancer!!  He had a mid-air collision with an La5 head on!  Both aircrafts went down.  Oh man, how could I forget!!

Offline Dinger

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Black Sea Frame 2 AAR
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2002, 09:48:00 AM »
Hehe, sorry to hear Ghostdancer was the one who blew the vulch on my short final La5 and rammed me    :).
Was a good scrap -- we almost made it.
CFIT

[edit] In case you were wondering the first engagement FDutchman describes is the same one that FunkedUp is talking about -- Funked was just a little off on the kill tallies.
so am I right on the results from this engagement?:
5 La5s shot down
1 La5 hit and lost in a collision

[double edit: on reviewing the tape, it seems that the initial group you describe was Nomde's squadron.  So when funked describes "reports of bandits low, but they were high", he's talking about the main force of bandits.  Nobody from Nomde's group reported being wiped out, so unless they irresponsibly chose to keep their teammates in the dark about what happened, I assume they survived.

3 109G2s shot down
1 109G2 hit and lost in a collision
2 109G2 ditched, 1 damage, 1 fuel exhaustion.
1 109G2 crashed after fuel exhaustion.
1 109G2 forgot to remap the enter-enter-enter key and bailed.

Frankly, both squads could have done better   :)

[ 01-05-2002: Message edited by: Dinger ]

[ 01-05-2002: Message edited by: Dinger ]

Offline Drex

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Black Sea Frame 2 AAR
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2002, 09:56:00 AM »
Who were the 3 La5s who were engaged with me on the deck just West of A43?  We were right in the mix when the dump happened.  Would like to have seen that fight play out.

Was a good time.  Thanks to the Nightmares for picking me up.  Great group of sticks there.

Drex

Offline AKIron

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« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2002, 10:46:00 AM »
Like AKCurly said, things were a bit confusing for us. We finally did manage to get somewhat organized and about 5 of us escorted the 412th to attack A45. A few LA5's came up to meet us and the fighters pretty much spiraled to the deck.

Had a drawn out fight that included a desparate chase through a city. Felt like Darth Vadar chasing an X-Wing around the Death Star. There were two of us giving chase and I'm not sure who got the kill but great flying. Who was that LA5?
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Offline -ammo-

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« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2002, 02:57:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by FDutchmn:


  I sent Fester and Drex to engage.  Keeping my altitude, I watched them race toward the enemy, forgetting about the con range of the arena.  While typing in reports I lost them.  Fester soon reported that they were La5s and they were running.  I ordered them to break off the chase.  However, as soon as Fester broke off, he was engaged.  I dove immediately in a frantic effort to look for them, with only a vague idea on where they were.  20K... 15K... 10K... I spotted dots just below the edge of the clouds and on a hunch, I raced towards them.  Just west of A8, Fester and Drex were dancing with several La5s.  As I got to the con range of the La5 with Dobe in tow, I saw Fester*s plane spewing out smoke.  I ordered Dobe to engage and tried to clear Fester's six.  I knew I was asking for trouble when I was getting low.  A low altitude dance continued when I learned that there were at least three of them.  I radioed for help as I was sure that if we didn't gain more advantage, we would all be wiped out.  Soon Fester met his fate and Dobe was also hit.  I finally managed to get on the six of one of them and blew him out of the sky.  Then I saw Dobe in tow of another La5 which was smoking.  I turned around only to see Dobe go down.  In vengeance, I gain the six of the La5 and put enough shells into him to break half his left wing.  I broke off satisfied that he would crash.  I soon caught a glimpse of BFD, and I ordered Drex to form up and grab.  We were clear of the bogeys.

Drex reported downing two and I had two kills. (although reviewing the film, Drex downed the La5 with the broken wing, therefore we shared one kill)  As soon as we got to the clouds, we turned around to engage again.  I soon found a melee with the rest of the Nightmares.  Moments passed dodging the enemy, grabbing altitude and soon we were running out of fuel.  We were ordered back to A3 for refueling.  Drex bagged another while clearing the six of Pyroman.  Initial reports indicated that we downed 8 to 10 La5s at the cost of four of our planes.  (Is the Bf109G-2 really that inferior?  The final tally will tell)


...


I am pretty sure the 3 LA5's near 8 was us (56th FG). I was the half winged la5 that drex got.  <S> great fight
Commanding Officer, 56 Fighter Group
Retired USAF - 1988 - 2011

Offline Blue Mako

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Black Sea Frame 2 AAR
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2002, 05:32:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AKcurly:
It was certainly better than not participating, but not knowing the objectives / flight paths of the groups we were supposed to join made for an evening below par for TOD.

Curly,

The mission tasking email I sent you to distribute to your squad included ALL mission plans for each squad.  It also included a map showing ALL squads and their flight plans.  It also includeed target recon photos and a performance comparison chart of the aircraft involved.

I'm sorry but you had all of the tools at your disposal to fly an alternate mission.  I wouldn't expect you to be able to fly it as effectively due to the late notice change but ALL of the information you described above was available to you from Tuesday.

Anyway <S> for sticking with it despite the hiccups yesterday.

Offline Blue Mako

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« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2002, 05:37:00 PM »
The 412th hit their assigned target at A45, causing much damage.  Unfortunately, the flight of AK's who were assigned to cover us did not join until late in their flight and thus could not cover us as we went over target.  Our Ju88's were jumped by about 10 La5's.  Only 1 of our Ju88's survived the ensuing melee.  I dove for the clouds, scissoring about 3 La5's as I did so.  I made it to the clouds but the perfect visibility inside the clouds made it impossible to escape and I was shot down with a wingtip gone after damaging two La5's.

In short: 412th bombed target but were then mauled.  :(

Offline FDutchmn

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« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2002, 05:41:00 PM »
Quote
Dinger wrote:
Hehe, sorry to hear Ghostdancer was the one who blew the vulch on my short final La5 and rammed me  :).

Eh? This must be another guy.  Ghost Dancer was way up over 10K when his collision happened.

 
Quote
Dinger wrote:
3 109G2s shot down
1 109G2 hit and lost in a collision
2 109G2 ditched, 1 damage, 1 fuel exhaustion.
1 109G2 crashed after fuel exhaustion.
1 109G2 forgot to remap the enter-enter-enter key and bailed.

Of these only the first four losses is directly due to enemy action.  Two were definitely preventable.  The other two were unfortunate incidents, one of which will be counted as a safe RTB as he belly-landed on the runway.

 
Quote
Dinger wrote:
Frankly, both squads could have done better  :)

YES!  This is what's good about this game!!  It's a constant challenge!

 
Quote
Dinger wrote:
so am I right on the results from this engagement?:

Ammo wrote:
I am pretty sure the 3 LA5's near 8 was us (56th FG). I was the half winged la5 that drex got. <S> great fight

<S> Ammo, that was fun!

It seems from what I have, we were engaged in a multiple number of La5FN squads.  It is probable that who rammed CFIT on a vulch was not one of us, the Nightmares.

From what I got from my squadmates, our tallys is as follows:

Concho - 2 La5FNs
GhstDncr - 1 La5FN (on a collision, kill will be awarded on who bailed later!)
Pyroman - 1 La5FN, 1 assist
MrKIL - 2 LaFNs
Drex - 2.5 LaFNs (0.5 for the shared kill, although I think Drex will be awarded the kill for more damage on Ammo's La5)
FDutchmn - 2.5 LA5FNs (one of which is from the second sortie, although this kill I am not sure how its going to turn out, due to the dump and lack of explosion when the La5 disappeared)

Total = 11 La5FNs shot down for 9 Bf109G-2 lost

 
Quote
Drex wrote:
Was a good time. Thanks to the Nightmares for picking me up. Great group of sticks there.

Drex, thank you for winging with me.  It was great! <S>

can't wait for the results...  :D that was fun!

Offline AKIron

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« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2002, 06:14:00 PM »
I don't think we would have had enough fuel to even make it to target with you guys had we not taken off late due to terrain problem. We were down to about 30% by the time the bombers were over tgt. Most of us did take off with dt and 100% fuel and that 10 minutes after you guys in the bombers took off. Makes me wonder if the fuel consumption rate was set properly.

Just so you don't think we abandoned ya we did in fact engage the la5's before attempting to rtb. However, as you noted, we were heavily outnumbered.

 
Quote
Originally posted by Blue Mako:
The 412th hit their assigned target at A45, causing much damage.  Unfortunately, the flight of AK's who were assigned to cover us did not join until late in their flight and thus could not cover us as we went over target.  Our Ju88's were jumped by about 10 La5's.  Only 1 of our Ju88's survived the ensuing melee.  I dove for the clouds, scissoring about 3 La5's as I did so.  I made it to the clouds but the perfect visibility inside the clouds made it impossible to escape and I was shot down with a wingtip gone after damaging two La5's.

In short: 412th bombed target but were then mauled.   :(
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