Author Topic: Black Sea Frame 2 AAR  (Read 3161 times)

Offline DRILL

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Black Sea Frame 2 AAR
« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2002, 07:00:00 PM »
457th

   must say had a blast <S> all
    our 1st job was to go to v27
    hit anything we could find .
     saw no GV but vh was up i
    droped 2 bombs on it in la-5
    and destroyed vh our hi cover was engaged
    with some 109s dont know for shur how many they got early reports say 3. WE rtb
took off again help requseted for a45 we droped ordance and raced to 45 where air battle was in full swing . during battle i shot dn 1 ju88 and 2 109s .. rtb again on
aproch >>landing actualy << 109s came in to straff the field i went full throtle and wep
  got on a 109 and shot him dn battle was a little crezy but we heald our own on on another 109 was scoring hits then the big disco came end of flight.

   early repotrs we got

  8   109 kills
  4 ju88 kills
   vh at v27 and other ground targets were hit
  i know there is more but not all have sent reports in to me ill edit as i get em
Drill /384th FA/CH 364th

Offline Blue Mako

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« Reply #16 on: January 05, 2002, 09:18:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AKIron:
Just so you don't think we abandoned ya we did in fact engage the la5's before attempting to rtb. However, as you noted, we were heavily outnumbered.

AKIron, wasn't blaming you guys for anything.  Was just unfortunate we had to switch from gvs at the last moment, that was what caused the confusion.

Also, we already had escort flights assigned, Assassins and Rogue Squadron.  Only problem was, none of the Assassins turned up and only 1 Rogue.  :(

Considering the Assassins were down for 11 pilots, that cut our forces by 25% before we even took off.

Offline sax

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« Reply #17 on: January 05, 2002, 10:18:00 PM »
Whiner :)

Sax

Offline sling322

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« Reply #18 on: January 05, 2002, 10:44:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AKcurly:

1. If you know we're going to face a terrain download, warn us before hand.


2. Test the VH and AH before you let squads invest time and energy in making plans.  You don't have to test the entire terrain, just the affected hangars.

curly
Quote

Check the boards Curly....there was a warning made concerning the download of a new version of the map.

There were people in the arena before I showed up for the setup due to the MA and the problems it was having Friday night.  I had my hands full enough trying to re-make setup tables for the event without having to go around and visually check each hangar and make sure that they werent destroyed.  Now I locked the fields down as soon as I got in and tried to upload my tables, but they didnt work and I had to start over from scratch.  We cant control what happens in the arena before we get there and we tried everything we could think of to get that hangar back up, but none of it worked.  What would you have us do?  

And for the other implications made in this thread over the fuel modifier....it was set at 1.5 as it has been for each and every other TOD and it is checked and double-checked over and over during the frame.

[ 01-05-2002: Message edited by: sling322 ]

[ 01-05-2002: Message edited by: sling322 ]

Offline Dinger

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« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2002, 12:34:00 AM »
Well, jeezus ammo, you 56th boys could have helped us out with a radio transmission informing us you were all shot down by a significant enemy force. We came in thinking the 8 or so guys above the clouds was all there was.

Anyway, that was the point of my "further review" statement.  Those three La5s were probably the 56th FG.  The other scrap was the 308th.  A tally of nine kills corresponds pretty well to the number of planes the 308th and the 56th put up.

Hell, all losses are preventable.  The fuel-exhaustion boys may have been among the two planes who stayed behind and killed funked and I as we ran out of fuel and had to head for the field.  Often we find that those who press a kill too far get the kill at the expense of their own hide (cf. "MA mentality") -- that certainly happened to us.

As for who rammed me on a HO vulch; first, there's nothing wrong with vulching in a scenario.  Actually, I believe quite the opposite: enemy aircraft are most vulnerable on the ground, and that's where they spend the most time.  Take-off and Landing are the second most vulnerable position.  When I was hanging at 150 MPH with gear and flaps down, and I saw the 109 closing on an attack run, I knew I was dead.  The only thing I could do was firewall it and turn into the attack.  The guy might have survived -- I wasn't around to see.
GhostDancer might have gotten Durr (who's peeling potatoes for not getting in the lufberry in a timely fashion)

Yeah, we all coulda done better.  And I hope we all do better next time.  That's why we keep playing, isn't it?

Offline AKcurly

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« Reply #20 on: January 06, 2002, 09:41:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Blue Mako:


Curly,

The mission tasking email I sent you to distribute to your squad included ALL mission plans for each squad.  It also included a map showing ALL squads and their flight plans.  It also includeed target recon photos and a performance comparison chart of the aircraft involved.

Sure, Mako, I understand.  On the other hand, I have a library card too.  Does that make me responsible for all knowledge in the library?  You do understand the comm chaos that occurred at 10:02 when we learned the GV was cancelled, right?  Even if I had memorized all 6 flight assignments, there's no way I could have effectively communicated the new assignments other than saying "blue flight, go that way, red flight this way."

To be completely honest, I'm not angry with anyone.  You did a superb job of drawing up the plans.  The CMs did their usual, excellent job of spinning gold from straw.  I have no business being critical.  Just frustrated.  :(

curly

Offline -ammo-

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« Reply #21 on: January 06, 2002, 02:05:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dinger:
Well, jeezus ammo, you 56th boys could have helped us out with a radio transmission informing us you were all shot down by a significant enemy force. We came in thinking the 8 or so guys above the clouds was all there was.


Actually I thought I did call the bogies out, but I could be wrong, I called out contacts that eve more than onece on different freq's.


Anyways, sorry bout that if I didnt get word to funked, we were a little busy and I logged immediately afterwards.
Commanding Officer, 56 Fighter Group
Retired USAF - 1988 - 2011

Offline -ammo-

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« Reply #22 on: January 06, 2002, 02:07:00 PM »
also, There were not 8 enemy AC there when We scrapped, more like 4-5 high 109's. Significant enough when you are approaching field 8 for landing.
Commanding Officer, 56 Fighter Group
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Offline Blue Mako

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« Reply #23 on: January 06, 2002, 02:23:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AKcurly:
Even if I had memorized all 6 flight assignments, there's no way I could have effectively communicated the new assignments other than saying "blue flight, go that way, red flight this way."

My point was Curly, I had even resized the flight assignment graphics to convenient clipboard size, perfect for converting to .bmp and attaching to your clipboard strat maps.  Then there is no need for memorizing, just click on the clipboard and voila!  Anyway, no need to worry about it now.  I think we did okay with low numbers and the confusion at the start.  <S> AK's.

Offline Dinger

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« Reply #24 on: January 06, 2002, 07:41:00 PM »
Let me put it a little more constructively, then:
We were headed to 8, and we heard your reports of bandits. No objection there.  We saw a bunch of dots NE of 27, and thought that might be our scrap.  We called repeatedly on channel 2 for an ident, but the friendly units (another squad) refused to identify themselves.  By the time we arrived in the area of 8, your group had been shot down by 5-6 109s under cloud cover.  We were flying over the clouds hoping to surprise the low bandits announced on the radio.  When we sighted bandits high, we assumed them to be the same ones that you had run into.  Had someone from your group informed us that you had all been shot down by low bandits near A8, we might have been able to disengage, or at the very least drop below cloud cover.
Anyway, that's what I was saying -- if the whole squadron gets shot down, well that sucks, but before you all log out, please, please, have someone tell the surviving groups that you got shot down.  That information could save somebody's life.
Before looging, I would have appreciated a report that you were wiped out by a number

Offline -ammo-

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« Reply #25 on: January 06, 2002, 09:25:00 PM »
Like I said dinger, I am sorry. You are right, but alas i am human and occasionally I make a mistake. Lat time was 1978...this was the second and last time :)
Commanding Officer, 56 Fighter Group
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Offline Dinger

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« Reply #26 on: January 06, 2002, 11:40:00 PM »
Damn s/he's 24 already?  Hell ammo -- we probably did the same thing when we left.  The whole point of my bringing it up is the same as FunkedUp's original posting, or FDutchman's post, or anyone else involved in the engagements: We discuss this stuff to relate what happened and to improve next time.  I confess I was upset when I posted well above.  But we can all just do better next week.  I'll consider it an improvement when 17 Nightmares meet 3 of the 56th and 6 of the 308th and nobody on either side loses a plane: now that is discipline.  :D

Offline Ripsnort

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Black Sea Frame 2 AAR
« Reply #27 on: January 07, 2002, 07:15:00 AM »
Short AAR for MAG-33:
Headed for A47 upon take off.  Upon arrival, we caught approx. 9 -109's on the field as we bombed them and A47 structures and killed a few trying to take off.  Most RTB'd (some were engaged with a handful of 109's)and re-fueled, took off and intercepted approx. 8 JU88's and a gaggle of 109's. Damage on several JU88's but I believe they made it to target.  (I lost a wing due to a JU88 gunner and subsequently bailed in friendly territory.)  I believe 2 or 3 survived the melee of the night in our squad, but we took many with us  ;)

Offline Durr

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« Reply #28 on: January 08, 2002, 05:04:00 AM »
One of the things I really enjoy about the TOD is how everybody tells what happened afterwords in here and you get to see the fight from all different perspectives.

  Here is my story:  
  I took off with the 308th leading one of the 3 sections of La-5s.  Hazed was my wingman.  By the way, Hazed is the best wingman I have ever flown with anywhere, anytime.  The 308th flew to our target (german airfield) meeting no opposition along the way.  The formation flying on the way out was the best I have ever seen.  The 3 sections were evenly spaced in combat spread, and the sections themselves were flying really nice, tight formations.  It was almost textbook.

  We rolled in at the field through the clouds and found that all the acks were already dead.  We quickly set about laying waste to everything in sight, totally flattening the field.  I dropped my first bomb on a VH, which unfortunately blew up just before my bomb hit, causing it to be a wasted drop.  By the time I came around for second drop there was almost nothing left to hit!  I saw a fuel tank still standing near the edge so I dove in on it, dropping my remaining egg.  Hit, fuel tank destroyed!  The squad made a final pass, confirmed all targets destroyed, and exited, climbing back up through the clouds for the rejoin.

 Soon, we were back in formation heading for a refuel.  On the way, we heard about some 109s near the field we were going to.  Funked cleared my section to engage at will.  We headed over some clouds where I could see 2 cons.  We rolled into the attack but it turned out that there were a lot more than 2. (Later, in my chute I estimated that there must have been 8-10.)  

The clouds definitely disrupted the fighting, which I think wouldnt have been as lopsided otherwise.  The clouds caused our squad to be split up, allowing the 109s to defeat us in detail 1 or 2 at a time.  Hazed stayed right with me until near the end.  I started fighting with the 109s, finding that the La-5 seems to have no problem out manouvering them for the most part.  However, as usual in an outnumbered fight, just as I would get on the tail of one, I would have to break to shake another one off my tail.  Twice I almost got one, actually saw some bullet strikes on one, then I broke out of the clouds to head for the nearby airfield after I heard funked call for disengage and form over field acks.  I actually got all the way back to the field before the rest of the squadron did, but I looked back and saw Hazed fighting with 4 bf109s closely pressing him.  
  I did an Immelman and headed back into the fray.  The fight lasted for all of 30 more seconds for me. I lost sight of all aircraft in the clouds, then broke out on top in the midst of several 109s.  I turned into their attack, meeting a 109 head-on.  I saw what appeared to be catastrophic damage on the 109 as I went by, unfortunately he also did my La-5 in as well.  My plane was toast, so I hit the silk and tried to aid my squad by calling out bandits on my way down.  Hazed was the only one that I could see clearly and he was already smoking, although I could see dots fighting over the airfield in the distance.  Hazed held out against four 109s for maybe a minute then he also went down.  

I decided that I would walk to the airfield since it was just right there, but that ended up taking me about 20 minutes.  I got there and ended mission and went back to the airfield we started from just in time to see a bunch of La-5s get vulched on landing.  Right after that I was rudely disconnected in what I now learn was a general dump.
 
Final score my section: 1 possible, 1 confirmed bf109, against both our aircraft lost.  Eagerly awaiting the results so I can see if I took my killer with me!

[ 01-08-2002: Message edited by: Durr ]

Offline Nefarious

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« Reply #29 on: January 08, 2002, 11:05:00 AM »
when 412th reached the target area all hell broke loose, it seemed like 10+ LA5's came screaming at us gunz blazing! I managed to destroy a Field Hangar before I was being hunted by 5 LA5's I tried to make a break for the clouds, blasting away with my peashooters I managed to hit/damage at least 2 La5's before i was consumed by the commie bastards!

Things we did wrong

1.when we reached target our formation started splitting up.
2.as soon as the 109's called all clear and left stating thier low fuel status thats when the enemy dove on us.

other than that it was a blast! still waiting on scores.
There must also be a flyable computer available for Nefarious to do FSO. So he doesn't keep talking about it for eight and a half hours on Friday night!