Author Topic: End of Full Dar  (Read 23133 times)

Offline bangsbox

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Re: End of Full Dar
« Reply #105 on: August 06, 2018, 04:07:34 PM »
 i absolutely love new dar!

to address alt monkey whines: to counter to alt monkeys  is low level b17s/b26s. using this tactic forces them to come down or have their base taken down.

Its also rewarding to bring space cadets out of orbit so friendlies can jump them.

Fighter trolling is extremely fun  (just ask my squady 999s).

Offline HGANCHOR

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Re: End of Full Dar
« Reply #106 on: August 06, 2018, 04:09:39 PM »
As per JimmyD3's request...someone post on the forum, when the Full Dar is taken down. In the mean time I'll be flying Sturmovik, at least they are not trying to create an arcade game.

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Offline Vraciu

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Re: End of Full Dar
« Reply #107 on: August 06, 2018, 04:26:02 PM »
Anchor sends

Cannot read you, Special Base.  Still garbled.
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Offline JimmyD3

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Re: End of Full Dar
« Reply #108 on: August 06, 2018, 04:30:55 PM »
I don't think I've been online 2 hours since Full dar was implemented. Just waiting for the test to be over.
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Offline molybdenum

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Re: End of Full Dar
« Reply #109 on: August 06, 2018, 06:36:58 PM »
I don't think I've been online 2 hours since Full dar was implemented. Just waiting for the test to be over.

HT's tentative part 2 for the dar test will be absolutely no improvement on part 1. As I understand it, all-seeing dar will be active to a player when he is in tower but not when he ups something. Someone surely will just stay in tower and guide squaddies and teammates to enemy players, so I am hoping either I misunderstood his intent or that he thinks better of it.

Offline molybdenum

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Re: End of Full Dar
« Reply #110 on: August 06, 2018, 06:45:56 PM »
While I see your point, I just don't think you can call shooting fish in a barrel a fight - for the fish or the shooter.

One good thing the full dar has done is shown what's been happening all along - bombers are coming in, probably at 25-30k, and the second they see an enemy fighter icon appear they turn around and go somewhere else. That also isn't a fight.

Respectfully disagree.
With the all-seeing dar, buff hunters are (wisely) grabbing lots of alt and fuel and just waiting for buffs to show their icons as they take off from a base. And buff pilots know this. When a fast fighter icon makes a beeline for their position from multiple sectors away, they know what they'll face if they continue their climb-out: a fighter with tons of E and whatever alt it wants, bearing in for the kill. No wonder they run away. Or bail. Or don't even bother to up in the first place.

Offline The Fugitive

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Re: End of Full Dar
« Reply #111 on: August 06, 2018, 06:55:45 PM »
Respectfully disagree.
With the all-seeing dar, buff hunters are (wisely) grabbing lots of alt and fuel and just waiting for buffs to show their icons as they take off from a base. And buff pilots know this. When a fast fighter icon makes a beeline for their position from multiple sectors away, they know what they'll face if they continue their climb-out: a fighter with tons of E and whatever alt it wants, bearing in for the kill. No wonder they run away. Or bail. Or don't even bother to up in the first place.

Those afraid to fight and looking for "easy" kills are those that are going to climb to pick. With full dar, or with out full dar your going to have those that are afraid to fight and spend their time climbing to pick. Personally I flew for 4 hours saturday and never made it over 12k and had a blast.

Offline 8thJinx

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Re: End of Full Dar
« Reply #112 on: August 06, 2018, 07:46:29 PM »
Those afraid to fight and looking for "easy" kills are those that are going to climb to pick. With full dar, or with out full dar your going to have those that are afraid to fight and spend their time climbing to pick. Personally I flew for 4 hours saturday and never made it over 12k and had a blast.

I tanked for 20 minutes Saturday and it sucked.
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Offline DurrD

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Re: End of Full Dar
« Reply #113 on: August 06, 2018, 07:58:51 PM »
Count me as another vote on the "HATES THE NEW DAR SETUP" side.  Here is why:

- It has destroyed what to me was the fun of the GV game.  GV'ing is about stealth, hiding, laying an ambush, a tense slow-burn game of hide-and-seek where you know somebody is out there, but are not sure exactly where.  You inch forwards from covered position to covered position, scanning each time you stop every possible place they could be.  If I could only do one thing in AH it would be to fly fighters, but I love AH because we get to do it all (fighters/bombers/gv's).  It took me precisely one sortie the first time I logged in on new system to determine that gv'ing is not fun this way.  Before anybody says it was because I died or something like that, not at all.  I made 2 kills with my Firefly, then towered out to avoid a wave of enemy air that was heading our way.  That brings up the 2nd problem:
- I wouldn't like it even if only other gv's could see your exact position, but since airplanes can also, then it completely ends gv play for me anyway.  The sector dar makes it hard enough to avoid planes that even before seemed to always zero right in on your tank even when you are well hidden in the trees; but at least you had something of a fighting chance.  This new system makes it so that tanks are absolute sitting ducks against attack planes.  Even bombers up at mid levels using the bombsight can target you with some effectiveness using bigger bombs without even ever getting in icon range, and with zero risk to themselves.  In fact, today ships were even targetting gv's with high effectiveness since they can see exactly where they are. 
- Vulnerable vehicles carrying troops (M3/LVT/etc) have zero chance of using the only real defense they have available to them (stealth).  At one of our bases that was under attack today, every time an enemy LVT spawned, we easily found it.  Contrast that to last month where on 2 separate occasions probably half a dozen of us searched for 15-20 minutes for a hiding LVT that had made it ashore.
- Bombers have it the worst.  You can instantly see them upping, and usually guess their target and approximately what altitude they will be at.  This deprives them of the chance to get some alt and speed to make their target runs.  I only tried one bomber sortie as well, and was shocked how many fighter instantly upped, clearly in reaction to my takeoff.  I sank a ship and lit 2 others, shot down 2 enemy fighters and got a proxy, and made it home safely, but only due to the sheer speed of the TU-2 in a slight dive.    It seems to me the likely result of this is that no one will ever fly the slower bombers, I know I won't. 
- Slow fighters have a problem as well.  Lets say you get a bunch of kills and are headed back home to land.  You will never make it.  Before you could ease out of the fight in a direction not in line with your base, curve around and sneak back home to land when low on fuel/ammo.  Now its impossible unless you are in one of the faster fighters.  It seemed to me that there was a distinct increase in P-51's, LA-7s, and Doras compared to usual (not that those planes arent always popular, but there were a lot less Zeroes/Spits/Yak3s/N1K's in evidence along with that). 
- Tactical deceptions are nearly impossible now, and that is a shame because it was a lot of fun.  Such as you get several squaddies to launch towards one base, get it flashing, but your real strike force is proceeding NOE to a different base.  The NOE part still works, but the instant you pop, instead of just having 2 bases flashing both with dar bar, they can see instantly which is the real effort.

To sum it up, this change only favors fast fighters and people that like to target bombers and gv's to the massive detriment of gvs and bombers.  Fair enough, I spent the rest of my short time available today flying fighters and attack missions.  Even there though, although it certainly made life easier, as I easily intercepted several formations of bombers on takeoff, and bombed a number of gv's that I easily found; the challenge of finding them was gone.  I have always enjoyed the hide and seek factor of trying to find vehicles whether I was in one myself or looking for them from the air.  And the art of trying to interpret what darbar is telling you is completely unnecessary now.  I'm not one to complain much about the game, as I have played it off and on for a very long time (nearly 18 years I think) and always loved it.  I'm not one of those that is always threatening to quit and such (you can look at my history of posts both as FBDurr and Durr before I was a Freebird and see that to be true).  I know this test is ending soon, and that was my only consolation because I do not think I will play again until I hear that it has changed.   
FBDurr -- A Freebird since 2013, been playing Aces High since 2001.

Offline Vraciu

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Re: End of Full Dar
« Reply #114 on: August 06, 2018, 08:17:35 PM »
Those afraid to fight and looking for "easy" kills are those that are going to climb to pick. With full dar, or with out full dar your going to have those that are afraid to fight and spend their time climbing to pick. Personally I flew for 4 hours saturday and never made it over 12k and had a blast.

Same here.  Been racking up lots of kills and finding good fights that leave me smiling even when I lose.  Finally get to practice some things and work on mistakes right away. 
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Offline HGANCHOR

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Re: End of Full Dar
« Reply #115 on: August 06, 2018, 09:04:52 PM »
This Full Dar thing keeps causing the DCS download server to crash from all the people installing their game. :headscratch:
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Offline molybdenum

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Re: End of Full Dar
« Reply #116 on: August 06, 2018, 09:08:48 PM »
Count me as another vote on the "HATES THE NEW DAR SETUP" side.  Here is why:

- It has destroyed what to me was the fun of the GV game.  GV'ing is about stealth, hiding, laying an ambush, a tense slow-burn game of hide-and-seek where you know somebody is out there, but are not sure exactly where.  You inch forwards from covered position to covered position, scanning each time you stop every possible place they could be.  If I could only do one thing in AH it would be to fly fighters, but I love AH because we get to do it all (fighters/bombers/gv's).  It took me precisely one sortie the first time I logged in on new system to determine that gv'ing is not fun this way.  Before anybody says it was because I died or something like that, not at all.  I made 2 kills with my Firefly, then towered out to avoid a wave of enemy air that was heading our way.  That brings up the 2nd problem:
- I wouldn't like it even if only other gv's could see your exact position, but since airplanes can also, then it completely ends gv play for me anyway.  The sector dar makes it hard enough to avoid planes that even before seemed to always zero right in on your tank even when you are well hidden in the trees; but at least you had something of a fighting chance.  This new system makes it so that tanks are absolute sitting ducks against attack planes.  Even bombers up at mid levels using the bombsight can target you with some effectiveness using bigger bombs without even ever getting in icon range, and with zero risk to themselves.  In fact, today ships were even targetting gv's with high effectiveness since they can see exactly where they are. 
- Vulnerable vehicles carrying troops (M3/LVT/etc) have zero chance of using the only real defense they have available to them (stealth).  At one of our bases that was under attack today, every time an enemy LVT spawned, we easily found it.  Contrast that to last month where on 2 separate occasions probably half a dozen of us searched for 15-20 minutes for a hiding LVT that had made it ashore.
- Bombers have it the worst.  You can instantly see them upping, and usually guess their target and approximately what altitude they will be at.  This deprives them of the chance to get some alt and speed to make their target runs.  I only tried one bomber sortie as well, and was shocked how many fighter instantly upped, clearly in reaction to my takeoff.  I sank a ship and lit 2 others, shot down 2 enemy fighters and got a proxy, and made it home safely, but only due to the sheer speed of the TU-2 in a slight dive.    It seems to me the likely result of this is that no one will ever fly the slower bombers, I know I won't. 
- Slow fighters have a problem as well.  Lets say you get a bunch of kills and are headed back home to land.  You will never make it.  Before you could ease out of the fight in a direction not in line with your base, curve around and sneak back home to land when low on fuel/ammo.  Now its impossible unless you are in one of the faster fighters.  It seemed to me that there was a distinct increase in P-51's, LA-7s, and Doras compared to usual (not that those planes arent always popular, but there were a lot less Zeroes/Spits/Yak3s/N1K's in evidence along with that). 
- Tactical deceptions are nearly impossible now, and that is a shame because it was a lot of fun.  Such as you get several squaddies to launch towards one base, get it flashing, but your real strike force is proceeding NOE to a different base.  The NOE part still works, but the instant you pop, instead of just having 2 bases flashing both with dar bar, they can see instantly which is the real effort.

To sum it up, this change only favors fast fighters and people that like to target bombers and gv's to the massive detriment of gvs and bombers.  Fair enough, I spent the rest of my short time available today flying fighters and attack missions.  Even there though, although it certainly made life easier, as I easily intercepted several formations of bombers on takeoff, and bombed a number of gv's that I easily found; the challenge of finding them was gone.  I have always enjoyed the hide and seek factor of trying to find vehicles whether I was in one myself or looking for them from the air.  And the art of trying to interpret what darbar is telling you is completely unnecessary now.  I'm not one to complain much about the game, as I have played it off and on for a very long time (nearly 18 years I think) and always loved it.  I'm not one of those that is always threatening to quit and such (you can look at my history of posts both as FBDurr and Durr before I was a Freebird and see that to be true).  I know this test is ending soon, and that was my only consolation because I do not think I will play again until I hear that it has changed.

Well said. I'm sticking around only long enough to see what the end result of the dar experiment will be. If phase 2 is as I expect it to be I'll check when I'd have to pay my next $15 and maybe pull the trigger before then, we'll see. But I expect this experiment to be unhappy-for-me and am already resigning myself to a life without Aces High.

Offline Vraciu

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Re: End of Full Dar
« Reply #117 on: August 06, 2018, 09:22:27 PM »
The sky is falling!!!!!   :banana: :eek: :x :bolt:
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Offline Oldman731

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Re: End of Full Dar
« Reply #118 on: August 06, 2018, 09:35:14 PM »
I was able to log on for half an hour or so tonight.  From that limited experience, I find I enjoyed the new DAR.  Had no trouble finding where enemy fighters were located, and this resulted in comparatively quick and even-sided fights. 

I can see why the strategerists and truck drivers do not enjoy it, however.  But I find that I don't interact much with those activities, so from my narrow perspective this is very fine.

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Offline TDeacon

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Re: End of Full Dar
« Reply #119 on: August 06, 2018, 09:44:12 PM »
Count me as another vote on the "HATES THE NEW DAR SETUP" side.  Here is why:

- It has destroyed what to me was the fun of the GV game.  GV'ing is about stealth, hiding, laying an ambush, a tense slow-burn game of hide-and-seek where you know somebody is out there, but are not sure exactly where.  You inch forwards from covered position to covered position, scanning each time you stop every possible place they could be.  If I could only do one thing in AH it would be to fly fighters, but I love AH because we get to do it all (fighters/bombers/gv's).  It took me precisely one sortie the first time I logged in on new system to determine that gv'ing is not fun this way.  Before anybody says it was because I died or something like that, not at all.  I made 2 kills with my Firefly, then towered out to avoid a wave of enemy air that was heading our way.  That brings up the 2nd problem:
- I wouldn't like it even if only other gv's could see your exact position, but since airplanes can also, then it completely ends gv play for me anyway.  The sector dar makes it hard enough to avoid planes that even before seemed to always zero right in on your tank even when you are well hidden in the trees; but at least you had something of a fighting chance.  This new system makes it so that tanks are absolute sitting ducks against attack planes.  Even bombers up at mid levels using the bombsight can target you with some effectiveness using bigger bombs without even ever getting in icon range, and with zero risk to themselves.  In fact, today ships were even targetting gv's with high effectiveness since they can see exactly where they are. 
- Vulnerable vehicles carrying troops (M3/LVT/etc) have zero chance of using the only real defense they have available to them (stealth).  At one of our bases that was under attack today, every time an enemy LVT spawned, we easily found it.  Contrast that to last month where on 2 separate occasions probably half a dozen of us searched for 15-20 minutes for a hiding LVT that had made it ashore.
- Bombers have it the worst.  You can instantly see them upping, and usually guess their target and approximately what altitude they will be at.  This deprives them of the chance to get some alt and speed to make their target runs.  I only tried one bomber sortie as well, and was shocked how many fighter instantly upped, clearly in reaction to my takeoff.  I sank a ship and lit 2 others, shot down 2 enemy fighters and got a proxy, and made it home safely, but only due to the sheer speed of the TU-2 in a slight dive.    It seems to me the likely result of this is that no one will ever fly the slower bombers, I know I won't. 
- Slow fighters have a problem as well.  Lets say you get a bunch of kills and are headed back home to land.  You will never make it.  Before you could ease out of the fight in a direction not in line with your base, curve around and sneak back home to land when low on fuel/ammo.  Now its impossible unless you are in one of the faster fighters.  It seemed to me that there was a distinct increase in P-51's, LA-7s, and Doras compared to usual (not that those planes arent always popular, but there were a lot less Zeroes/Spits/Yak3s/N1K's in evidence along with that). 
- Tactical deceptions are nearly impossible now, and that is a shame because it was a lot of fun.  Such as you get several squaddies to launch towards one base, get it flashing, but your real strike force is proceeding NOE to a different base.  The NOE part still works, but the instant you pop, instead of just having 2 bases flashing both with dar bar, they can see instantly which is the real effort.

To sum it up, this change only favors fast fighters and people that like to target bombers and gv's to the massive detriment of gvs and bombers.  Fair enough, I spent the rest of my short time available today flying fighters and attack missions.  Even there though, although it certainly made life easier, as I easily intercepted several formations of bombers on takeoff, and bombed a number of gv's that I easily found; the challenge of finding them was gone.  I have always enjoyed the hide and seek factor of trying to find vehicles whether I was in one myself or looking for them from the air.  And the art of trying to interpret what darbar is telling you is completely unnecessary now.  I'm not one to complain much about the game, as I have played it off and on for a very long time (nearly 18 years I think) and always loved it.  I'm not one of those that is always threatening to quit and such (you can look at my history of posts both as FBDurr and Durr before I was a Freebird and see that to be true).  I know this test is ending soon, and that was my only consolation because I do not think I will play again until I hear that it has changed.

Nice summary.  I agree with most of this. 

I was able to log on for half an hour or so tonight.  From that limited experience, I find I enjoyed the new DAR.  Had no trouble finding where enemy fighters were located, and this resulted in comparatively quick and even-sided fights. 

It seems it works for many-on-many in-visual-range furballs.  Unfortunately, that comes with the side effects mentioned by DurrD above. 

The sky is falling!!!!!   :banana: :eek: :x :bolt:

LOL; now that you've run out of logical (?) arguments, you are resorting to blanket denials and emoticons ...

MH
« Last Edit: August 06, 2018, 09:48:20 PM by TDeacon »