End of Full Dar

[Vraciu]

When I played on Monday, bomber icons showed up inside of an undestroyed dar circle.

Yes, I just meant version two of the experiment where bombers showed as fighters.

[scott66]

Not to mention he's just wrong . Eliminating the gv aspect will just drive subs away ..I gv and fly I much rather have a shooting at me with a with than him in WoT because the gv aspect was taking away.. You cannot force a gver into plane by eliminating the gv aspect. .. But that's just my opinion from someone still in the game

[Electroman]

If AH were to suddenly decide to remove the human GV option and incentivize human versus human aerial combat, I would be among the first to re-subscribe. That is very likely impossible from a business perspective as it would kill a very large portion of the current subscriber rolls and require at least a year commitment to attract the air combat players into the game.

Anyway, my opinion, FWIW

 

Ahhh...no. Removing the humanized GV option you may as well close the doors. If you want a Fighter Only based game then you have other options out there. AH has and will hopefully always continue to be an all inclusive MMO WWII based - and that includes air, land, and sea.

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few...or the one.
- Spock

 

[FESS67]

I am inclined to agree with Dawger.  My preference is for air to air combat.  I spent 2 years in ww2ol and whilst it was ok I really wanted good air fighting.

I do understand the attraction of the GV aspect and the thought of combined ops is exciting but it simply does not work in AH.  I am sure with more numbers or smaller maps it might but as it is now it just splits players into 2 camps.

For me the worst part of the current game is the fact that the first action for many players is to jump into a field gun or wirble as the very first line of defence.  Sure, it is effective but it is also boring from an air to air perspective.

HiTech can do little about that though as it is a players choice.  The more it happens the less fun the game is for me, the less time I spend in it and eventually I will look elsewhere.

I was working in the period of the trial but from from reading the boards even the trial has split the community in half.  Some thought it was great as they flew headlong into to a mass of fighters and others hated it as it took away their ability to hide n sneak.

You know you have a problem when players use the all seeing radar to actively avoid combat.

[scott66]

Or to actively seek combat fess 

[Vraciu]

I am inclined to agree with Dawger.  My preference is for air to air combat.  I spent 2 years in ww2ol and whilst it was ok I really wanted good air fighting.

I do understand the attraction of the GV aspect and the thought of combined ops is exciting but it simply does not work in AH.  I am sure with more numbers or smaller maps it might but as it is now it just splits players into 2 camps.

For me the worst part of the current game is the fact that the first action for many players is to jump into a field gun or wirble as the very first line of defence.  Sure, it is effective but it is also boring from an air to air perspective.

HiTech can do little about that though as it is a players choice.  The more it happens the less fun the game is for me, the less time I spend in it and eventually I will look elsewhere.

Or they use the stupid 88 to pot at guys in a 1 v 1 totally ruining the fight.   Manned guns should be restricted when numbers are low.   Get in a plane or log out.

I was working in the period of the trial but from from reading the boards even the trial has split the community in half.  Some thought it was great as they flew headlong into to a mass of fighters and others hated it as it took away their ability to hide n sneak.

You know you have a problem when players use the all seeing radar to actively avoid combat.

You got that right.

I never had so much fun as during the radar test.  Now I am back to chasing dar bar ghosts...   

[Vraciu]

Or to actively seek combat fess 

He was talking about the PROBLEM.   Actively seeking combat is not a problem.  The *LACK* of it is a problem.

[1stpar3]

Fess, you have a valid point, and hard pressed to find an argument there BUT...I believe its all in the eye of the beholder(or WHEN you found the game). When I found AH it WAS the AIR that hooked me. The OVERALL WAR concept SET THE HOOK(as by that time GVs and other non air aspects had already been added). It wasnt a Circle hook either, was an old school, deep in the gullet hook up. It didnt talke very long to REALIZE...AIR COMBAT was going to be a work in progress. No arcade flying with auto targeting weapons...I got my butt shot off..BUT I LOVED IT. Everyone had ALL the same tools at their disposal. No power ups or other gaming stuff, so I HAD AN opportunity to change my fate in that aspect...BUT with the whole WAR aspect, it gave me a chance to be AN ACTUAL BENEFIT to the war effort. To this day, I will jump in a WIRB at first, I am better at making a defence in this way, more productive. Sure I can jump in a plane and get picked,over and over...and thats fine too.It doesnt however do much to MAKE a DIFFERENCE in the situation(true running attackers out of ammo works ) but it doesnt give a feeling of accomplishment. It seems to me, than some of you FIGHTER guys, and I mean that with the UPMOST of RESPECT justt see it differently. In my opinion, and I could be wrong.... most WW2 Fighter Gods did more than just fly around looking for distracted enemies to jump IN THE AIR. True for some, THAT was their mission...but it wasnt like what you guys like to do in here. Most didnt have One v ONE fights between areas of operations(we have DA/Matchplay for this) our MELEE arena is a Full Aspect Combat simulator. Those of us that play this way understand this...I love to Dogfight,when its available...I love just flying around too. So to find more action in the AIR...I learned how to be EFFECTIVE Dive Bombing. Its still AIR and keeps me involved in the WAR EFFORT at the same time. I play EVERYDAY(I am lucky in that freedom) and its the OPTION to do whatever I feel like doing that keeps me playing. Some days my coordination/motor skills are having issues-I will GV. Some days I just want to kill-up a heavy Spit or Ki-84 and look for Reds. Some days all I want to do is set in a wirb and play ATC at attacked fields. I love it all, and jjust about everyone who plays this game. So its different in my experiences...not necessarily a Camp1 v Camp2 type of thing    Folk will always avoid combat...IF that avenue is supplied. We just have a difference of what AVOIDING is. I would up a plane 100% in a deffence  situation...IF I HAD A CHANCE. That isnt the case. Yes I could up from back base...BUT I FEEL NEEDED at the base being attacked, so see...its not avoiding, its wanting to make a difference. Up auto gun performance OVER BASE...not to stop attack but to ALLOW a deffense. Sure some will look at ACK to rescue them, thats WHY IT IS THERE. ^6 to 1 in a dffensive situation, I understand it. I have no problem with it either...I can wait till they come out. Its up to the individual to choose WHERE the attack happens. If you chase,you chase...but the defender is allowed to use defensive measures at hand as well.

[Vraciu]

It's all about driving critical mass.   Numbers beget numbers.

If all-seeing radar when numbers are low generates player interest then an increase in players will cause the all-seeing radar to turn off and everyone can get back to hiding again.

[Wiley]

It's all about driving critical mass.   Numbers beget numbers.

If all-seeing radar when numbers are low generates player interest then an increase in players will cause the all-seeing radar to turn off and everyone can get back to hiding again.

Except I think that's backwards.  I think most of the people with the biggest problems with all seeing dar's playstyle is more prevalent when numbers are lower than when they're higher.

Wiley.

[FESS67]

I totally agree 1stpar3, it is very much a matter of perspective.  The guys that just want fighter action seem to get fewer by the day.  I was drawn to the game after Fighter Ace died because I wanted to be a virtual WW2 Fighter pilot.

I just feel my days here are numbered because there is less of that type of action.

[scott66]

He was talking about the PROBLEM.   Actively seeking combat is not a problem.  The *LACK* of it is a problem.

I'm aware but he stated people use the all radar to actively avoid combat I was stating others use the all radar to actively seek combat... People avoiding combat in a combat game is nothing new since I've been playing and as far as manned guns on base... Nothing says kiss my bellybutton to vulchers like an 88mm to the face or a 37mm cutting them in half if you decided to vulch aircraft expect to be plucked out of the sky by manned gun after all that's what they are there for

[bustr]

I understand the wish for air combat in the old style that gradually lost popularity towards the end of AH2. Since we had a radar test for two weeks that explored player response to seeing everything and a variation on the theme. Hitech didn't test raising the minimum to 200ft to see if it would be an aid to our low numbers in taking the risk of assaulting feilds with planes. While making themselves exposed to air combat at least near the ground around the target field.

We know that being exposed on radar does not promote the old style of air combat. We watched as a fighter icon would point it's nose towards another fighter icon and that player would veer away on radar over two weeks of testing. That wanting to mano-E-mano hunt for competitors was another era and another kind of player with a small number of that kind of player still with our game. There is no longer a build it and they will come back that can be promised around man to man fighter combat. You want combat, what you have now is reminiscent of who populated all the NOE missions to avoid exposure and being killed a few seconds after a merge with players like FESS. Back then those players were harvested as a byproduct of their play style which helped them feel they had a chance to accomplish something besides be fodder for the game's Sharks. Most of them had and have no interest in becoming a FESS or back then a muppet.

So you can waste time in here calling them cowards while elevating your selves to demigod fighter combat hero or, you can figure out what makes them really up and expose themselves to being shot down by the air combat hero's of today. As always so far the answers the air combat hero's come up with is "they" are cowards and killing this game and we are hero's becasue we can define what is wrong with them that makes us unhappy. But, you can't define what will get them into the air and expose themselves to getting shot be the hero's.

When the recent radar test was over and everything back to normal, a squad ran some missions doing things like attacking a field in all IL2. It was fun defending against and if the radar minimum had been 200ft, they would have done a lot more damage before the first defenders got off the ground. With 200ft as the radar minimum, a 110 raid would have dropped the town and maybe taken that field. Last night my squad made the decision 65ft was not worth trying to assault a field in a mountainous area becasue no one would have been able to keep 65ft given the terrain. When that terrain was first introduced, 200ft was the minimum and NOE assaults worked out very well becasue of the surprise factor. And why so many none air combat players flew those missions.

The radar minimum at 65ft is why so many players won't bother and don't up much anymore. So what if NOE missions would then proliferate at 200ft minimum. Half the time they got found out by exposing them selves, CV radar, greifers with a second account laptop, greifers PMing friends in the other country. But, enough got through keeping the none air combat players in airplanes as potential targets becasue "they" liked the odds for their risk. Other wise they will not up for FESS and company just to make FESS and company happy about this game. They will continue to man field guns and wirbles becasue that is about how much they care for that one facet of this game. Most players in the MA are not interested in ACM and won't get involved with any depth of interest.  They will accept it as a risk to attacking a field as part of a group or as part of a group in a comfortable furball from their perspective. I'm sure many here can remember when hundreds of players would not be visible on a 20x20 map becasue they were NOE avoiding people like the muppets. But, they came back year after year and filled the MA.

[1stpar3]

  100%. In my early days, it was those NOE missions that hooked me. Also led me to become EFFECTIVE at dive bombing. It was always interesting to see who would kiss a tree or teabag the wrong Dolphin Atleast 1 laugh a mission...was FUN

[Vraciu]

I'm aware but he stated people use the all radar to actively avoid combat I was stating others use the all radar to actively seek combat... People avoiding combat in a combat game is nothing new since I've been playing and as far as manned guns on base... Nothing says kiss my bellybutton to vulchers like an 88mm to the face or a 37mm cutting them in half if you decided to vulch aircraft expect to be plucked out of the sky by manned gun after all that's what they are there for

3/4 of the people in here at least are using it to avoid combat.  The survey will tell you what the number likely is.  Combine the two vote totals for the new dar and compare them to the vote for the old way.  I bet it's 3:1.

Vulchers?    I'm in a  1 v 1 out over the water and getting potted by an 88.  That's stupid.

Put an ENY on the ack guns.    When numbers are <30 you can't use one. 

I totally agree 1stpar3, it is very much a matter of perspective.  The guys that just want fighter action seem to get fewer by the day.  I was drawn to the game after Fighter Ace died because I wanted to be a virtual WW2 Fighter pilot.

I just feel my days here are numbered because there is less of that type of action.

This is unfortunate, but there will be a lot of people going with you.   

The fact is, if I had not already invested ten years in this game I'd be gone, too.   When you log into an arena and chase ghosts it is really boring as a vet.   For a new player....?   Impossible.