Author Topic: Latest "radar" abomination  (Read 12291 times)

Offline ccvi

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2074
      • http://www.carl-eike-hofmeister.de/
Latest "radar" abomination
« on: August 21, 2018, 04:42:11 PM »
Sucks as bad as the full dar. Real-time updates, no need to spot anything. Just be within 6k.

Options like "fly low to disable icon", and activities like "check 6 often" have been taken out of the game. Planes that don't show an icon appear on dar by just being nearby, looking outside of the window is no longer neccessary. Map shows everything in realtime.

Why not go all the way and make it look like this?





Offline Shuffler

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 27070
Re: Latest "radar" abomination
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2018, 04:45:45 PM »
Sucks as bad as the full dar. Real-time updates, no need to spot anything. Just be within 6k.

Options like "fly low to disable icon", and activities like "check 6 often" have been taken out of the game. Planes that don't show an icon appear on dar by just being nearby, looking outside of the window is no longer neccessary. Map shows everything in realtime.

Why not go all the way and make it look like this?

(Image removed from quote.)
(Image removed from quote.)
(Image removed from quote.)

We could just throw a net over our plane and become invisible like other games.

How about just fight.... or is fighting the problem.
80th FS "Headhunters"

S.A.P.P.- Secret Association Of P-38 Pilots (Lightning In A Bottle)

Offline Vraciu

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 14139
Re: Latest "radar" abomination
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2018, 04:53:40 PM »
Sucks as bad as the full dar. Real-time updates, no need to spot anything. Just be within 6k.

Options like "fly low to disable icon", and activities like "check 6 often" have been taken out of the game. Planes that don't show an icon appear on dar by just being nearby, looking outside of the window is no longer neccessary. Map shows everything in realtime.

Why not go all the way and make it look like this?

(Image removed from quote.)
(Image removed from quote.)
(Image removed from quote.)


I should have known this would be the reaction to ANY change.

IT IS NOT RADAR.  IT IS AN INFORMATION SYSTEM.

"Woodbine Red Leader, bandits, thirty plus.  Vector zero nine zero to intercept." - Radar Controller

"Woodbine Red Leader, I've got bandits!   Thirty FWs ten miles east of Bumville at twenty thousand." - Fighter Pilot

"Coastwatch One, bandits, thirty plus.   Heading 260, twenty thousand." - Ground Observer

We could just throw a net over our plane and become invisible like other games.

How about just fight.... or is fighting the problem.

Fighting is the problem.  Which is odd coming from ccvi since he will stand in there and swing the bat.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2018, 04:56:52 PM by Vraciu »
”KILLER V”
Charter Member of the P-51 Mustang Skin Mafia
- THE DAMNED -
King of the Hill Champ Tour 219 - Win Percentage 100
"1v1 Skyyr might be the best pilot ever to play the game." - Via PM, Name Redacted

Offline ccvi

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2074
      • http://www.carl-eike-hofmeister.de/
Re: Latest "radar" abomination
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2018, 06:22:09 PM »
IT IS NOT RADAR.  IT IS AN INFORMATION SYSTEM.

HiTech himself said it's called radar (it's just not intended to simulate radar). It doesn't matter what it is. If the official term is radar, I'll call it radar, too.
If you prefer to call it differently than what the one single authority calls it, that's your choice.

"Woodbine Red Leader, bandits, thirty plus.  Vector zero nine zero to intercept." - Radar Controller

"Woodbine Red Leader, I've got bandits!   Thirty FWs ten miles east of Bumville at twenty thousand." - Fighter Pilot

"Coastwatch One, bandits, thirty plus.   Heading 260, twenty thousand." - Ground Observer

That would be perfectly reasonable. As chat message (I think this was done somewhere, many ages ago, though probably not online), or more modern'ish as voice transmissions. Those differ from the "radar" (call it what you want) in that those don't give instantaneous low-level information. Information that cannot be used for the final approach (of final escape). The all-seeing edition and the current one show both one's self and the enemy with zero delay, and can be used as targetting computer, intercept/evasive maneuver planning down to the lowest level just above finally aiming the guns. Add altitude and 95% of the game can be played on the clipboard, like Elite can be played by looking at its radar. More like an RC plane, because the moving-map GPS we have doesn't rotate track up. But I fear track-up auto-center will be the next feature of the map (the only thing that protects as from that madness is that 1024x1024 may be a bit lowish resolution to look nice when rotated).

The 0-delay map removes things that need to be done (looking around). It removes alternative paths that can be taken (trying to stay out of harms way). It makes the uneventful flight more boring, and makes the overall game more boring by allowing fewer possible play styles.

Fighting is the problem.  Which is odd coming from ccvi since he will stand in there and swing the bat.

Only if there is a reason to. I don't like to fight, or to kill. But I will if I have to, because we're at war. I understand that your point of view differs on this. You like to kill of fight just because.

If all the game had was a furball, I don't think I would still be here. No, I'm pretty sure I would never have gotten here. The description of a somewhat complex war, to be fought with tools that are somewhat hard to control sounded interesting (somewhat complex/hard from the point of view back then). Had the description been "counterstrike with planes", that would under no circumstances haven been sufficient to sign up for a monthly payment. A little CS-style furball doesn't require many players, and just hooking up some computers with friends was something that was interesting in the decade before finding AH, and it didn't come with a montly fee.

If something comes at a higher cost than alternatives, it has to offer something that doesn't exist elsewhere. Furball exists elswhere. Persistent worlds exist elsewhere. A "persistent furball" doesn't seem to make any kind of sense. A slim chance to win $500 doesn't look attractive either (there's enough offerings to drop your email here to win... and such sites often look more legit than the https-less hitechcreations.com). It needs to be something unique, that can't be had elsewhere. Because "elsewhere" intends to serve the majority to cover basically unlimited development efforts, whatever is here cannot just be unique, but will likely need to target an unusual audience (if it would be a normal audience, it would have already been served well by the bigger fish). Trying to compete with something usual, at lowish development costs, for a higher price than others - doomed.

It needs to be exotic. Extraordinary. An unusual kind of fun. It needs to be large-scale, cannot replicate at home. The individual fight is: Meaningless.

(Losing players within 10 minutes is probably a different issue - it's probably completely wrong expectations. What's wrong? The description, or the game?)

Offline Vraciu

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 14139
Re: Latest "radar" abomination
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2018, 07:13:33 PM »
HiTech himself said it's called radar (it's just not intended to simulate radar). It doesn't matter what it is. If the official term is radar, I'll call it radar, too.
If you prefer to call it differently than what the one single authority calls it, that's your choice.


We simply call it radar, we use our "radar" as a method to display all aircraft intelligence. We do not in any way attempt to model real radar.

HITech

It is NOT RADAR.  I repeat, it is NOT RADAR.  It is an information system.  An INTELLIGENCE network.   Visual, radar, audible, etc.  Can it be modified to better simulate a non-real-time system?  Of course.   And that may be next.



Quote
That would be perfectly reasonable. As chat message (I think this was done somewhere, many ages ago, though probably not online), or more modern'ish as voice transmissions. Those differ from the "radar" (call it what you want) in that those don't give instantaneous low-level information.

It is a gaming concession, just like autopilots, combat trim, icons, etc. etc. etc.


Quote
Only if there is a reason to. I don't like to fight, or to kill. But I will if I have to, because we're at war. I understand that your point of view differs on this. You like to kill of fight just because.

This is a combat game.  If combat is not in one's wheelhouse then perhaps Monopoly or Chutes and Ladders would be more appealing, I dunno.

Quote
(Losing players within 10 minutes is probably a different issue - it's probably completely wrong expectations. What's wrong? The description, or the game?)

It could be a bit of both.   :salute
« Last Edit: August 21, 2018, 07:17:33 PM by Vraciu »
”KILLER V”
Charter Member of the P-51 Mustang Skin Mafia
- THE DAMNED -
King of the Hill Champ Tour 219 - Win Percentage 100
"1v1 Skyyr might be the best pilot ever to play the game." - Via PM, Name Redacted

Offline molybdenum

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 447
Re: Latest "radar" abomination
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2018, 07:13:57 PM »
Sucks as bad as the full dar. Real-time updates, no need to spot anything. Just be within 6k.

Options like "fly low to disable icon", and activities like "check 6 often" have been taken out of the game. Planes that don't show an icon appear on dar by just being nearby, looking outside of the window is no longer neccessary. Map shows everything in realtime.

Another non-starter for bomber pilots imo. At best it means we have to up further back so we won't be on partial climbout when we hit the front lines and get IDed for what we are (and pounced on; and the same bomber hunters who pounced when full dar was enabled will now just patrol at high alt along those aforementioned front lines).
That's more time out of my life gone for a game that just got more arcad-y again.

Offline Vraciu

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 14139
Re: Latest "radar" abomination
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2018, 07:15:12 PM »
Another non-starter for bomber pilots imo. At best it means we have to up further back so we won't be on partial climbout when we hit the front lines and get IDed for what we are (and pounced on; and the same bomber hunters who pounced when full dar was enabled will now just patrol at high alt along those aforementioned front lines).
That's more time out of my life gone for a game that just got more arcad-y again.

Look at the bright side: you'll be safe from me because I'm not going to climb to 30K to chase you.
”KILLER V”
Charter Member of the P-51 Mustang Skin Mafia
- THE DAMNED -
King of the Hill Champ Tour 219 - Win Percentage 100
"1v1 Skyyr might be the best pilot ever to play the game." - Via PM, Name Redacted

Offline Oldman731

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9418
Re: Latest "radar" abomination
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2018, 07:47:30 PM »
That would be perfectly reasonable. As chat message (I think this was done somewhere, many ages ago, though probably not online), or more modern'ish as voice transmissions. Those differ from the "radar" (call it what you want) in that those don't give instantaneous low-level information.


The arena settings permit a radar update delay.  The AvA staff use this occasionally (frequently?).  Should be possible to do so in the MA as well.  Put in a 30-second delay, or whatever, and you'll still get an idea where the enemas are, but not exactly where.

- oldman

Offline Shuffler

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 27070
Re: Latest "radar" abomination
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2018, 08:21:44 PM »
Another non-starter for bomber pilots imo. At best it means we have to up further back so we won't be on partial climbout when we hit the front lines and get IDed for what we are (and pounced on; and the same bomber hunters who pounced when full dar was enabled will now just patrol at high alt along those aforementioned front lines).
That's more time out of my life gone for a game that just got more arcad-y again.

You can always get fighter cover.
80th FS "Headhunters"

S.A.P.P.- Secret Association Of P-38 Pilots (Lightning In A Bottle)

Offline The Fugitive

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17921
      • Fugi's Aces Help
Re: Latest "radar" abomination
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2018, 09:26:08 PM »
You can always get fighter cover.

What and use TEAMWAORK in an MMO????? Have you been out in the sun to long today?

Offline Oldman731

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9418
Re: Latest "radar" abomination
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2018, 09:26:23 PM »
Congrats to Bishops for running that high-alt mission to the ack factory tonight.  It was a most excellent demonstration of the new radar setting test.  I saw the DAR bar, flew towards it, and, once I was in visual range, the enema icons appeared on the map.  Very authentic, I thought - visual confirmation of altitude and position. 

It is still more difficult to find a fight than it was with the all-on radar setting, but I think this should please the war-winner crowd while improving things for the furballers.

- oldman

Offline 1ijac

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 996
Re: Latest "radar" abomination
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2018, 09:28:09 PM »
What happens when the poor goon pilot is trying to fly in troops?
"One-Eye"

Offline 8thJinx

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 991
Re: Latest "radar" abomination
« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2018, 09:51:05 PM »
What happens when the poor goon pilot is trying to fly in troops?

Join Date: Nov 2012

B-24H Liberator SN 294837-T, "The Jinx", 848th BS, 490th BG, 8th AF, RAF Station Eye, delivered 1943.  Piloted by Lt. Thomas Keyes, named by by his crew, and adorned with bad luck symbols, the aircraft survived the entire war.

Offline TequilaChaser

  • AH Training Corps - Retired
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10173
      • The Damned - founded by Ptero in 1988
Re: Latest "radar" abomination
« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2018, 09:56:04 PM »
I don't think beoching about the recent patch's radar settings, just 2 hours and 33 minutes after the release is quantifiable, to come to the boards and post a thread stating that

I don't like to fight or kill your opponent but you will if you have to because we're at war

That bold part is just damn silly.... Is like saying, if you leave me alone I will leave you alone and go our separate ways...

People know this already but if you played a game/games long enough and alot you will surely burn yourself out at some point... Taking a small break every little bit will help you keep from burning completely away

As NoBaddy (NB) would always tell me, stop looking through Rose colored glasses at the past and focus on the present moment and find your fun

I could post a long list of quotes but nothing new under the sun sums it up good enough....

Answer me this: do you honestly think 2 hrs 33 min.s is sufficient enough amount of time to have downloaded the latest patch installed it then played online enough to get any decent amount of results of game play to come to the boards and post a complaint thread?


Give HTC a chance to breathe and the community a chance to download and try the new patch out for at least through 1 week.....before pee'ing in HTC's corn flakes... doing so as fast as you did is just beoching to be beoching and nothing else

That's my view of this thread ... YMMV

TC
"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC

Offline caldera

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6437
Re: Latest "radar" abomination
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2018, 09:59:18 PM »
Congrats to Bishops for running that high-alt mission to the ack factory tonight.  It was a most excellent demonstration of the new radar setting test.  I saw the DAR bar, flew towards it, and, once I was in visual range, the enema icons appeared on the map.  Very authentic, I thought - visual confirmation of altitude and position. 

It is still more difficult to find a fight than it was with the all-on radar setting, but I think this should please the war-winner crowd while improving things for the furballers.

- oldman

The war win crowd want to sneak around with near offline invulnerability and only the illusion of MA danger. 
"Then out spake brave Horatius, the Captain of the gate:
 To every man upon this earth, death cometh soon or late.
 And how can man die better, than facing fearful odds.
 For the ashes of his fathers and the temples of his Gods."