Kills per sortie / hour

[DmonSlyr]

Doesn’t make you right.

 

And yet I can do it and still be in the Top 50 at the end.   That makes zero sense.

Yeah, we know that.  I think you get half.   Don’t quote me on it though. 


Points are easy to get.  I can rank #1 in points all day long if I want.   The thing we’ve demonstrated is the return on investment is not worth it starting around 10,000.   After that you should ditch to maintain K/D and bump up your K/H. 

I did not see his numbers, but generally speaking this is not a factor.  Had he bumped up his K/H or hit % he would have ranked higher I’m almost certain.   You cannot win a tour based on gross numbers.  (Edit In: In his case he was already high on other metrics and his kill points were low, thus the effort to go from 82 in kill points to enough to win wasn’t much.)

The effort required to go from #5 to #1 in points is best used for K/H.   

One sortie.  Top 40. 


Let me say it again since you missed it.   Skyyr never played for rank.  He played for the fight.  Had he focused on score he would have easily been #1.   He was already in the top 10 regularly when he was NOT focused on score. 

There are others who did similarly. 

He flew speed/performance planes because he was always wading into a horde alone down lowusually alone.    He was capable of success in any plane.

Vraciu, do you understand how the score works? If you have one sortie with 5 kills. Based on everyone else in the game. That gives you a 5 k/D. (Top 20). A5 kills per sortie (top 3 literally in the whole game). Great aim on bombers will give you (top 20), a quick sortie might give you (top 20.)  Now, those are all "skill" metrics. The majority of players don't score that high. Every sortie counts. Atlau was top 5 in every category but top 100 in points. He had to risk that score for more points to pass me.  You are only top 40 because you scored high in one sortie, which gave you high marks in all of those categories, making your rank add up lower. But, you have a low amount of points. This means players who play more than you no matter their skill metrics will have more points than you. Thus hurting your rank. Thru the month, more and more people will gain more points than your just one sortie. This makes your rank fall. Even though you have top scores in every other categories. The key to having a high fighter score is to do a 3-5 kill sortie quickly every time and landing to increase your points. That's actually very challenging. The scoring is great because it doesn't just give it to players who played the most hours and it doesn't just give it to players who have 1 sortie wonders. You could rank #1 in points, but that makes it harder to have higher "skill" metrics ( K/D K/S K/T because each sortie effects that. (ie, if you don't keep up the same amount of kills or you die more, it hurts those "skill" metrics in relation to the ranks. It's getting a lot of points + scoring high in those metrics every sortie that gives you a high score. This is the challenging part.

It's great to see where you rank in each category. I love that. Especially to measure K/S and K/D.

Do you understand now why you scored top 40 even though you didn't have a lot of points? It's not based on time played the longest or shortest. It's based on each "skill” metric. You had high metrics even with a low rank in points. You would have been lower in the ranks if more people played.

[Lusche]

One sortie.  Top 40.

In the past 33 months, your best one sortie tour ended at #72, your best two sortie to at #49 

[Vraciu]

In the past 33 months, your best one sortie tour ended at #72, your best two sortie to at #49 

There you go.   Two sorties.  #49.

Silly.

Beyond ridiculous actually.

(I flew under other IDs--in order to switch countries when numbers were bad, practice with my TrackIR, etc.--which I will not divulge.  Similar results.)

[Vraciu]

Vraciu, do you understand how the score works? If you have one sortie with 5 kills. Based on everyone else in the game. That gives you a 5 k/D. (Top 20). A5 kills per sortie (top 3 literally in the whole game). Great aim on bombers will give you (top 20), a quick sortie might give you (top 20.)  Now, those are all "skill" metrics. The majority of players don't score that high. Every sortie counts. Atlau was top 5 in every category but top 100 in points. He had to risk that score for more points to pass me.  You are only top 40 because you scored high in one sortie, which gave you high marks in all of those categories, making your rank add up lower. But, you have a low amount of points. This means players who play more than you no matter their skill metrics will have more points than you. Thus hurting your rank. Thru the month, more and more people will gain more points than your just one sortie. This makes your rank fall. Even though you have top scores in every other categories. The key to having a high fighter score is to do a 3-5 kill sortie quickly every time and landing to increase your points. That's actually very challenging. The scoring is great because it doesn't just give it to players who played the most hours and it doesn't just give it to players who have 1 sortie wonders. You could rank #1 in points, but that makes it harder to have higher "skill" metrics ( K/D K/S K/T because each sortie effects that. (ie, if you don't keep up the same amount of kills or you die more, it hurts those "skill" metrics in relation to the ranks. It's getting a lot of points + scoring high in those metrics every sortie that gives you a high score. This is the challenging part.

It's great to see where you rank in each category. I love that. Especially to measure K/S and K/D.

Do you understand now why you scored top 40 even though you didn't have a lot of points? It's not based on time played the longest or shortest. It's based on each "skill” metric. You had high metrics even with a low rank in points. You would have been lower in the ranks if more people played.

Atlau performed better than you did.    You outscored him by using points to offset your inferior ranks elsewhere.

Had he simply flown a few more sorties he would have easily passed you.  (You beat him by about 22 points.   The effort for him to move from 82 to 60 in kill points was minimal.  You, OTOH, had to sweat it out to get to 35 in kill points.   Had you dropped 5 in kill points by ditching and moved up ten by upping your K/H--also by ditching--you would have won by 27 instead of 22.

Kill points are the easiest thing to get.

And the rate of return on investment is low beyond 10,000.   It rapidly becomes exponential.

This is part of the reason why the system is flawed.

Margin of victory could be weighted, for example.

[DmonSlyr]

Atlau performed better than you did.    You outscored him by using points to offset your inferior ranks elsewhere.

Had he simply flown a few more sorties he would have easily passed you.  (You beat him by about 22 points.   The effort for him to move from 82 to 60 in kill points was minimal.  You, OTOH, had to sweat it out to get to 35 in kill points.   Had you dropped 5 in kill points by ditching and moved up ten by upping your K/H--also by ditching--you would have won by 27 instead of 22.

Kill points are the easiest thing to get.

And the rate of return on investment is low beyond 10,000.   It rapidly becomes exponential.

This is part of the reason why the system is flawed.

Margin of victory could be weighted, for example.

Yeah, he scored very high in the metrics part of the score. Notice how many sorties he had. That is minimal. He was also in a 262 for 99% of kills.

It appears like you do not understand why this scoring system is actually pretty good. If you scored high in a lot of metrics but only fly one sortie, those metrics add up lower and give you a higher rank.

Atlau could have rolled more sorties for to catch up on points, which would have beat me, but he would have had to risk is other metrics with more sorties... he probably wasnt able to play.

What I am trying to tell you is, he only had 16 sorties... the score is designed so that players with minimal sorties cant just out rank everyone else who have played more. You still have to get a high level of metrics and a high level of points to be at the top. That is a system that works. Points are a lot harder to get when you have to maintain a high K/D, K/S, K/T all at the same time.

[Lusche]

Fighter #1 tour 223:





Fighter #2 tour 223




This time, kill points won 

[Lusche]

Distribution of the fighter score sub categories in tour 223.
X axis is always the players, the highest ranked (lowest rank #) is leftmost.


(Y axis tuncated, the top 4 pilots had k/d >20)















To break top 40, you needed a rank sum of ~500, top 10 ~250

[Vraciu]

Yeah, he scored very in the metrics part of the score. Notice how many sorties he had. That is minimal. He was also in a 262 for 99% of kills.

I didn't check his sorties.   He flew enough to prove that he could maintain that pace.  It wasn't a one or two mission fluke.

It doesn't appear like you do not understand why this scoring system is actually pretty good.

If you scored high in a lot of metrics but only fly one sortie, those metrics add up lower and give you a higher rank.

No.  They add up and give you a higher rank than you will ever attain on volume alone.   You cannot kill point your way to #1.  EVER.   

Atlau could have rolled more sorties for to catch up on points, which would have beat me, but he would have had to risk is other metrics with more sorties... he probably wasnt able to play.

His metrics are always good.  The reality is that he needed a very few number or sorties at his pace to beat you.  Then he could have sat out and let you try as hard as you wanted and you wouldn't have caught him, even if you scored 300,000 kill points.

What I am trying to tell you is, he only had 16 sorties... the score is designed so that players with minimal sorties cant just out rank everyone else who have played more. You still have to get a high level of metrics and a high level of points to be at the top. That is a system that works. Points are a lot harder to get when you have to maintain a high K/D, K/S, K/T all at the same time.

You have to achieve a modest balance, but you cannot kill point your way to #1.    For a minimal amount of effort--a handful of sorties--he would have passed you even if you scored a million points.

Grinding your way to points does nothing for you.

The scoring doesn't reward who is best.  It rewards who games the system the most effectively.  This can be done a lot easier in 30 sorties than in 300.

[Vraciu]

Distribution of the fighter score sub categories in tour 223.
X axis is always the players, the highest ranked (lowest rank #) is leftmost.

(Image removed from quote.)
(Y axis tuncated, the top 4 pilots had k/d >20)


(Image removed from quote.)


(Image removed from quote.)


(Image removed from quote.)


(Image removed from quote.)



To break top 40, you needed a rank sum of ~500, top 10 ~250

This is good stuff.   Very nice.   

[Vraciu]

Fighter #1 tour 223:

(Image removed from quote.)



Fighter #2 tour 223

(Image removed from quote.)


This time, kill points won 

Not exactly.

Because had he scored a handful more points he would have won and still been 25 places and THOUSANDS of kill points behind Violator.

You cannot grind your way to a win on kill points.   Ever.

You can game the system and win in 30 sorties over a guy who has a million kill points and 300 sorties.   Atlau's performance actually proved my point.

[DmonSlyr]

Not exactly.

Because had he scored a handful more points he would have won and still been 25 places and THOUSANDS of kill points behind Violator.

You cannot grind your way to a win on kill points.   Ever.

You can game the system and win in 30 sorties over a guy who has a million kill points and 300 sorties.   Atlau's performance actually proved my point.

I don't really understand how you can "game" the score. You still have post high metrics. Some one with 300,000 points still has to have a high K/D, K/S, hit% and K/T to maintain a top rank. Like any other metric, say K/D. You can have the highest K/D in the game but if you don't maintain the rest of the scores, you won't be top ranked.

I like this way because it means that players who have 300 sorties and all the time in the world to play don't just get #1 based on time in the game. While a player who scored 1 high sortie cant just be a top ranked player because of points.

I saw an opening to outrank Atlau with points. He could have easily flown a couple more sorties and upped his points to pass me. I could have done terribly and lost my K/D or K/S trying to pass him on points. See how that works? More sorties equal more risk, but you have to fly more sorties if you want the points.

[Vraciu]

I don't really understand how you can "game" the score. You still have post high metrics.

A guy can fly a dozen sorties and win the entire tour.   

That's gaming the system in my opinion. 

Minimum to qualify for rank should be 50 sorties or something like that.


It's really simple.

Some one with 300,000 points still has to have a high K/D, K/S, hit% and K/T to maintain a top rank.

You're clearly not paying attention as that has been my contention from the beginning.   You cannot grind your way to #1 through points.  You need around 15-18K points roughly.  In this last case, Atlau needed to place #60 in kill points to win the entire tour.  That was probably around 18K.   At the pace he was on that's a handful of sorties at most.

[Lusche]

A guy can fly a dozen sorties and win the entire tour.   

It's not that just anybody could just simply do that. Only a small percentage of AH pilots could pull that off, so it's not entirely undeserved.

[Vraciu]

It's not that just anybody could just simply do that. Only a small percentage of AH pilots could pull that off, so it's not entirely undeserved.

Perhaps.  It would be like a player in any major sport winning a scoring title after one game, however.

It seems to me that a minimum number of sorties should be flown to even qualify for a ranking other than last. 

[Lusche]

The lowest number of sorties for the fighter tour winners in the past 2 years was 36, flown by Bruv (no surprise here). Average was 99:



If you look at the scores of these winners in detail, you can see that beating their scores in a mere 12 sorties would be a huge achievement.
As said before, only a very few pilots could pull that off.
When AH continues to lose pilots, there will be a time when sortie numbers as low as a dozen will appear on that chart, but that's still quite some distance away.

By the way, in tour 233 the median number of sorties in fighter mode per player actually using that mode was 27 - So tour winners do fly a lot more sorties than the average player.