Author Topic: P51 crash, two killed including a WW2 vet  (Read 3369 times)

Offline JOACH1M

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Offline Nefarious

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Re: P51 crash, two killed including a WW2 vet
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2018, 12:21:13 PM »
Any more details on who owned it?
There must also be a flyable computer available for Nefarious to do FSO. So he doesn't keep talking about it for eight and a half hours on Friday night!

Offline Vraciu

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« Last Edit: November 18, 2018, 01:23:37 PM by Vraciu »
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Offline Vraciu

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Re: P51 crash, two killed including a WW2 vet
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2018, 12:47:55 PM »
Any more details on who owned it?

Here's a video shot of it entering a loop.  I can't see it well enough on my phone to identify it. 


https://www.google.com/amp/s/abc13.com/amp/vintage-world-war-ii-plane-crashes-near-texas-apartments/4709234/?espv=1


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.voanews.com/amp/4663409.html?espv=1


Edit in:

Pecos Bill.  P-51D (s/n 44-74445) NL4132A.

http://www.mustangsmustangs.com/p-51/




Cowden Ward Jr from July 1 2017: "I have owned and flown my P-51 Mustang 'Pecos Bill' to honor and provide over 175 complimentary flights for our WWII veterans........what a great honor and truly a touching moment each flight has been .... ". Cowden and his veteran passenger were lost Nov 17 2018 in Pecos Bill. Thanks you Cowden for touching so many lives and bringing smiles to faces of our veterans.


https://www.worldwarbirdnews.com/2018/11/18/two-killed-in-p-51d-mustang-pecos-bill-crash-in-texas/
« Last Edit: November 18, 2018, 02:23:08 PM by Vraciu »
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Offline Shuffler

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Re: P51 crash, two killed including a WW2 vet
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2018, 04:47:46 PM »
The museums in Fredricksburg are worth seeing.
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Offline ghi

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Re: P51 crash, two killed including a WW2 vet
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2018, 05:18:57 PM »
Sad, :pray, here  a photo i still have on my phone as I've seen it on 12 September , 2015  at Fort Worth air show.

Offline DmonSlyr

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Re: P51 crash, two killed including a WW2 vet
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2018, 03:04:48 PM »
God what a shame  :frown:

Such a beautiful aircraft and great men.

Prayers go out to all involved with the pilots.
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Offline Vraciu

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Re: P51 crash, two killed including a WW2 vet
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2018, 10:41:44 AM »
Warbird Alley says:

17 November: A North American P-51D Mustang, N4132A (s/n 44-74445)("Pecos Bill"), crashed in a parking lot next to an apartment complex near Fredericksburg, Texas, USA, after an apparent engine failure. Owner/pilot Cowden Ward and his WWII-veteran passenger and former B-17 bombardier, Vince Losada, were killed. The aircraft had participated in a flyover as part of a history program for a nearby museum, and the owner was known to give rides to WWII veterans. [Local news report>>]



https://www.kxan.com/news/texas/pilot-who-honored-veterans-id-d-in-deadly-fredericksburg-plane-crash/1603904380


Vince Losada:

https://www.kxan.com/news/local-news/loved-ones-remember-wwii-veteran-killed-in-fredericksburg-plane-crash/1607617993
« Last Edit: November 20, 2018, 10:43:58 AM by Vraciu »
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Offline bustr

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Re: P51 crash, two killed including a WW2 vet
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2018, 02:38:37 PM »
How over time do the ongoing accidents with war birds effect if the FAA will continue to allow them to fly?
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This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline Shuffler

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Re: P51 crash, two killed including a WW2 vet
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2018, 02:43:28 PM »
To date, nothing to do with age caused the crash.
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Offline bustr

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Re: P51 crash, two killed including a WW2 vet
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2018, 04:44:46 PM »
My father spent a few years flying cargo with Beech 18 in the 80's and the reqs from the FAA were stringent due to age. So some parts were new creation while others were salvaged from air frames kept for just that. I flew with a collector of antique planes and low budget warbirds a few times my father was friends with. When he bought T28, he bought 3 so he could keep one flying by having the other two deconstructed and two refurbished engines in storage. To have his PT19 passed off air worthy, about the only original parts left were the info plates. He still ditched it in a corn field the first day it was out of the hanger, he was a so so pilot but, he was a millionaire retired IBM engineer.  He bought the land from the farmer on the spot and had him help put up a quick barn over the PT19 to hide it from the FAA and cut down all the corn to cover up the landing mishap. He let the farmer keep growing corn on the rest of the acreage and profit from the harvest. Then paid him to bulldoze a dirt strip up to the barn the next spring when he flew it home after all the stealth repairs were finished. Having money and it being the 80's you could get away with that.

   
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This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline deSelys

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Re: P51 crash, two killed including a WW2 vet
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2018, 02:51:50 AM »
My father spent a few years flying cargo with Beech 18 in the 80's and the reqs from the FAA were stringent due to age. So some parts were new creation while others were salvaged from air frames kept for just that. I flew with a collector of antique planes and low budget warbirds a few times my father was friends with. When he bought T28, he bought 3 so he could keep one flying by having the other two deconstructed and two refurbished engines in storage. To have his PT19 passed off air worthy, about the only original parts left were the info plates. He still ditched it in a corn field the first day it was out of the hanger, he was a so so pilot but, he was a millionaire retired IBM engineer.  He bought the land from the farmer on the spot and had him help put up a quick barn over the PT19 to hide it from the FAA and cut down all the corn to cover up the landing mishap. He let the farmer keep growing corn on the rest of the acreage and profit from the harvest. Then paid him to bulldoze a dirt strip up to the barn the next spring when he flew it home after all the stealth repairs were finished. Having money and it being the 80's you could get away with that.

 

Cool story!  :rock
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Offline Vraciu

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Re: P51 crash, two killed including a WW2 vet
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2018, 11:52:41 AM »
How over time do the ongoing accidents with war birds effect if the FAA will continue to allow them to fly?

Many of these planes are remanufactured.   About the only thing original is the data plate. 
”KILLER V”
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Offline Vraciu

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Re: P51 crash, two killed including a WW2 vet
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2018, 02:22:26 PM »
Consider...   Piston engines are nowhere near as reliable as turbines.   The Merlins being used today are light years more durable than the original for a number of reasons (aftermarket mods like improved oil and cooling systems, reduced horsepower due to lower octane fuel, etc.) but they’re still a high performance piston.    There are plenty of non-warbird piston crashes out there.   It’s the nature of the beast.   

The bigger issue for me is the pilot’s age.   As bad as I feel in my forties I can’t imagine pulling Gs in a P-51 at age 73.   I’m more afraid of sitting behind a 73-year old pilot than I am flying a 73-year old restored warbird.   
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Offline DaveBB

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Re: P51 crash, two killed including a WW2 vet
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2018, 04:50:02 PM »
They definitely weren't pulling any Gs on that flight.  90+ year old in the back.  Looks like the plane either ran out of gas, had an engine failure, or got too slow and spun in.
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