Boeing 737 800 MAX

[Vraciu]

Canada have also grounded the MAX.

https://edition.cnn.com/world/live-news/boeing-737-max-8-ethiopia-airlines-crash/index.html

Mass panic ensues.   Run for your lives!

[Zimme83]

So you are saying that the new data that they received is not enough to justify their decision?

[Puma44]

CNN.  Far from being a credible news source.  Purely agenda driven.

[Vraciu]

So you are saying that the new data that they received is not enough to justify their decision?

Yep. 

“Mr. Garneau said at a news conference that the step had been taken after a review of newly available satellite tracking data that suggested similarities in the Ethiopian Airlines crash on Sunday to the crash last October of a Lion Air Max 8 in Indonesia.”


Ooooh.  Satellite tracking data.   

Yawn.

[Busher]

Truly advanced avionics began to appear in the early 1980's and by the middle of the decade airbus shocked the industry with the introduction of an airliner flown by computers where pilots made suggestions to flight and the computers made sure that the pilot's inputs were reasonable. Bit of a judgement on my part but I never flew airbus products and never had any interest in doing so.
My point is based on examining how the pilot's job has changed so quickly and whether the change is for the better. You could also interpret this as the ramblings of an old man.
When I was first trained to fly airliners, hand flying skills were expected and enhanced in training. All airliners had autopilots. Their most advanced skill was flying an auto-coupled instrument approach but they weren't terribly smooth and the expected standard was that the pilot could fly the same approach at least as accurately and hopefully more smoothly.
In the early 80's Flight Management Systems appeared and autoflight systems were magical. We didn't have to look up performance things like max altitudes for weight and temperature... the FMS told us. It magically calculated best points to start down for landing... we didn't even have to do those mental gymnastics anymore. BUT for reasons probably based in tradition, we still had to demonstrate we could manipulate the airplane with skill and precision with no help from the automation.
Those days are gone. My last type endorsement ride was conducted completely with the use of the automation. New First Officers joining the Airline and getting their very first type endorsement would qualify in the same way. Hand flying the airplane on line operations was discouraged by management.
A few years back ALPA and the FAA did some work in the hopes of enhancing Basic Operating Skills and we began to see some hand fly training in the simulator. It likely helped somewhat but most oldfarts like me didn't believe it went far enough.
Fast forward a few years to the most glaring example ever...  Air France 447. What should have been an insignificant event led to hundreds of deaths.
I am not suggesting that these 737 accidents occurred because they happened outside North America. I am also not suggesting that automation is a bad thing in airplanes.. the precision of automation saves millions for the airlines every year. The ultimate protection for an airplane and its contents is a highly trained pair of pilots who can recognize quickly when the automation misbehaves; are able to shut it off and expertly fly the airplane to a safe landing.

But since I started this diatribe, it would seem Canada is also questioning the airplane. They have grounded the 737 MAX.

[Vraciu]

Busher quote: “I am not suggesting that these 737 accidents occurred because they happened outside North America.”

Well, I will, having been there up close and personal.  The vast majority of these guys (95%+) wouldn’t cut it at a US 121 Carrier.    Heck, one of the guys I flew with in Africa came over here after getting hired by United.   He failed his sim and was fired.  Southwest hired him and he failed IOE.   He’s now slinging gear at Mesa.   The only reason I flew with him is because my butt was in the cockpit, too.

I can tell you a hundred stories just like it.  It’s not only the culture, which is a big issue in more ways than one, it’s a serious lack of training.   Board these third world carriers at your peril.  I won’t. 

[ACE]

Government putting NYSE over public saftey. Typical.

[Zimme83]

Busher quote: “I am not suggesting that these 737 accidents occurred because they happened outside North America.”

Well, I will, having been there up close and personal.  The vast majority of these guys (95%+) wouldn’t cut it at a US 121 Carrier.    Heck, one of the guys I flew with in Africa came over here after getting hired by United.   He failed his sim and was fired.  Southwest hired him and he failed IOE.   He’s now slinging gear at Mesa.   The only reason I flew with him is because my butt was in the cockpit, too.

I can tell you a hundred stories just like it.  It’s not only the culture, which is a big issue in more ways than one, it’s a serious lack of training.   Board these third world carriers at your peril.  I won’t.

Ethiopian still have a very good reputation in the aviation industry. Your opinion wont change that.

[Vraciu]

Ethiopian still have a very good reputation in the aviation industry. Your opinion wont change that.

Maybe in Africa but not in the real world.  I wouldn’t be caught dead on “E-topia” EVER. 

[Zimme83]

Since you refuse to base anything on facts and make your judgement based on "they're from Africa" you have told me enough about yourself..

[ACE]

Since you refuse to base anything on facts and make your judgement based on "they're from Africa" you have told me enough about yourself..

About as baseless as his claim to sitting in the seat next to all these pilots. You got any pictures of flying a Jumbo jet Vraciu?

[Vraciu]

Since you refuse to base anything on facts and make your judgement based on "they're from Africa" you have told me enough about yourself..

Yeah.  I flew in Africa for over two years as a Check Airman and Line Training Captain.   I speak from firsthand knowledge.    Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

[Vraciu]

About as baseless as his claim to sitting in the seat next to all these pilots. You got any pictures of flying a Jumbo jet Vraciu?

Who in Africa flies a "jumbo jet" there, Sparky?

Arek has one 340 which is about as close as you'll get, and a huge number of their pilots are expats for a reason.   One prime example.

[ACE]

Who in Africa flies a "jumbo jet" there, Sparky?

You can knit pick my terminology all you want. You still skated my question. Which speaks more on your character as a man, Buster.

[Vraciu]

You can knit pick my terminology all you want. You still skated my question. Which speaks more on your character as a man, Buster.

Reading not on your agenda today?

Nice partial quote, Sport.