Author Topic: More MAX information  (Read 40562 times)

Offline Toad

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Re: More MAX information
« Reply #375 on: April 13, 2019, 06:02:38 PM »
You did.

I firmly believe both the Lion Air and Ethiopian situations could have been resolved and the aircraft landed safely.
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Offline Vraciu

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Re: More MAX information
« Reply #376 on: April 13, 2019, 06:39:11 PM »
You did.

I firmly believe both the Lion Air and Ethiopian situations could have been resolved and the aircraft landed safely.

I agree, based on what we know.   

Still, despite all the requests to refrain from speculating the “blame the jet” crowd couldn’t help themselves.     Wouldn’t it be quite the lesson if the professionals are vindicated?

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Offline Shuffler

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Re: More MAX information
« Reply #377 on: April 13, 2019, 07:15:49 PM »
Both airlines should ground all their planes until training of the crews are checked.
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Offline Toad

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Re: More MAX information
« Reply #378 on: April 13, 2019, 07:21:17 PM »
Our FAA doesn't keep the manufacturers honest.

Our NTSB keeps our FAA and manufacturers honest.

Example:  https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/AAR1002.pdf

NTSB slapped both FAA and Lear. Not to mention the left seater's CRM.

This is why I'd like the NTSB to have access to the original FDR and CVR. I do believe in our NTSB to shoot straight.

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Offline ACE

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Re: More MAX information
« Reply #379 on: April 13, 2019, 08:32:51 PM »
You did.

I firmly believe both the Lion Air and Ethiopian situations could have been resolved and the aircraft landed safely.


Totally agree. And always have!  But why fly something that for sure has a problem. This incident you can’t blame just one person. There’s a lot of things that went wrong imo. For sure a case of profits over people.
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Offline FLS

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Re: More MAX information
« Reply #380 on: April 13, 2019, 08:38:07 PM »
Totally agree. And always have!  But why fly something that for sure has a problem. This incident you can’t blame just one person. There’s a lot of things that went wrong imo. For sure a case of profits over people.

Cars are unsafe. Cars crash every day all over the world. All cars should be parked until they are fixed so they're safe.   :D

Offline Toad

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Re: More MAX information
« Reply #381 on: April 13, 2019, 09:05:14 PM »
Totally agree. And always have!  But why fly something that for sure has a problem. This incident you can’t blame just one person. There’s a lot of things that went wrong imo.

Yes. There was an accident chain. There are multiple factors. The point is the chain could have been easily broken by the crews.

Quote
For sure a case of profits over people.

Remember what I posted earlier? Don't be.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline ACE

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Re: More MAX information
« Reply #382 on: April 14, 2019, 12:02:32 PM »
Yes. There was an accident chain. There are multiple factors. The point is the chain could have been easily broken by the crews.

Remember what I posted earlier? Don't be.

Also could be broken by the faulty MCAS.
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Offline FLS

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Re: More MAX information
« Reply #383 on: April 14, 2019, 12:53:08 PM »
Also could be broken by the faulty MCAS.

Report indicates the MCAS, mandated and approved by the FAA, worked as designed.

Offline Toad

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Re: More MAX information
« Reply #384 on: April 14, 2019, 01:58:12 PM »
The MCAS did work as designed.

Think about this; If the Lion Air JT610 crew had correctly analyzed the situation and turned off the Stab Trim Cutout switches as the crew did on the same aircraft the day before, there would have been no Lion Air 737 Max crash.

If the Ethiopian ET302 crew had correctly analyzed the AOA miscompare and used appropriate pitch and power to achieve normal performance, there would have been no Ethiopian 737 Max crash.

Beyond that, the 350+ 737 Max fleet had logged tens of thousands of hours of safe flight prior to those accidents. It wouldn't surprise me if the total was WAY  beyond a 100,000 hours world wide. Example: Assume in the month before the crash, 350 MAX aircraft flew at least 2 legs a day of about 2 hours. (I suspect the usage is far greater than that. Aircraft don't make money sitting on the ground.) Anyway, 2 x 2 x 350 = 1400 hours per day x 30 days in a month = 42,000 hours a month.

I think the aircraft has proven it's reliability. The Lion Air crash is directly attributable to launching an aircraft that was not airworthy coupled with a crew that did not understand how to apply the Runaway Stabilizer Trim NNC. The Ethiopian crash was most like attributable to an AOA bird strike (Act of God) and a crew that did not know how to handle an AOA miscompare and deliberately violated the Runaway Stabilizer Trim NNC. Neither of those situations reflect on the aircraft; rather they reflect on the crews.

The implication that Boeing somehow cut corners to increase profits is a statement I would expect from someone approaching 12 years of age.

Boeing ADDED MCAS to the Max to INCREASE the level of safety. This undoubtedly cost them MORE money. I think every aircraft manufacturer intuitively understands their future depends entirely upon building aircraft to the highest level of safety.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline pembquist

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Re: More MAX information
« Reply #385 on: April 14, 2019, 03:26:30 PM »
Boeing ADDED MCAS to the Max to INCREASE the level of safety. This undoubtedly cost them MORE money. I think every aircraft manufacturer intuitively understands their future depends entirely upon building aircraft to the highest level of safety.

My understanding is that MCAS was added to make the airplane certifiable with the new engines. It saved them a lot of money when compared to what it would have cost to change the air-frame. Nothing wrong with that, but the way you describe it they went out of their way to make the airplane safer despite additional cost which is definitely not what I am seeing.
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Offline ACE

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Re: More MAX information
« Reply #386 on: April 14, 2019, 03:46:21 PM »
My understanding is that MCAS was added to make the airplane certifiable with the new engines. It saved them a lot of money when compared to what it would have cost to change the air-frame. Nothing wrong with that, but the way you describe it they went out of their way to make the airplane safer despite additional cost which is definitely not what I am seeing.

Yep. It was more of a hurry up and get it going so we don’t lose money kind of thing to me. Obviously someone in the industry will argue against that until they are blue in the face. It’s all about money at the end of the day.
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Offline Shuffler

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Re: More MAX information
« Reply #387 on: April 14, 2019, 03:53:28 PM »
Yep. It was more of a hurry up and get it going so we don’t lose money kind of thing to me. Obviously someone in the industry will argue against that until they are blue in the face. It’s all about money at the end of the day.

Do you read what you type before posting?
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Offline ACE

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Re: More MAX information
« Reply #388 on: April 14, 2019, 03:59:17 PM »
Do you read what you type before posting?

Yep. Ya don’t have to agree with me. But it’s obvious.
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Offline FLS

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Re: More MAX information
« Reply #389 on: April 14, 2019, 04:13:08 PM »
Yep. It was more of a hurry up and get it going so we don’t lose money kind of thing to me. Obviously someone in the industry will argue against that until they are blue in the face. It’s all about money at the end of the day.

You talking about Boeing, which needs to make safe airplanes to stay in business, or the Ethiopian government, owner of Ethiopian Airlines, that wrote a report that said they saw nothing wrong with their standards for their pilots or the pilots' actions?