More MAX information

[Puma44]

Dunno...

-Isn't it true that the 737 type rating covers all the models from the -300 to the MAX? What about the differences trainings? Is there an exam evaluated by an independent examiner at the end?

-2 other interesting points IMO:

• software is usually written by people with much less of an aeronautical 'culture' than e.g. mechanical engineers
• software certification would not be on the same level as certification of 'nuts, bolts and wires' components

True.  The 737 type rating covers all models.  Differences training is typically via computer based and may or may not involve a written test.  No rational need for an independent evaluator at the end.

[Toad]

Yeah, Boeing will have to add to the differences training.

They'll have to put a note in there that says not to climb 1500fpm at 94% thrust while exceeding Vmo.

Or something.

Maybe........FLY THE JET.

[Mister Fork]

Just curious - who here is an actual pilot either x-military or commercial/civil?

I’ll go first. I am not a pilot.

[bustr]

I read the article at a financial web site that embedded the text of the article so I didn't have to create an account to read it. And the comments section there look like there is a following of BOTS trying to make people fear Boeing. All the BOTS just happen to be ex-military and "programmers" with one saying 747 instead of 737. The article is incredibly biased while being presented by an untouchable expert. He is a commercial jet pilot and a "programmer" which is supposed to make him an unassailable expert becasue he has credentials, while presenting information anyone can get on the WEB to write a compelling article. I'm very sure part of the pilot training for the MAX was about the extra lift the new engine nacelles produced on their own. Pretty standard fair to begin a whisper campaign to damage a corporation by claiming the whole plane design killed those people thus Boeing is who killed those people knowingly producing a bad design. And this is why Trump grounded the fleet for awhile.

So what does Boeing do to resolve future issues with the MAX before this BOT and unassailable expert whisper campaign can do any real damage?

[Vraciu]

Just curious - who here is an actual pilot either x-military or commercial/civil?

I’ll go first. I am not a pilot.

Five type ratings (six if you count it twice since it goes for two different airplanes), ATP, CFII, MEII, 10,000+ total time, mostly in jets. 

[Toad]

Just curious - who here is an actual pilot either x-military or commercial/civil?

I’ll go first. I am not a pilot.

 I am. Both military (USAF) and commercial (Major US airline) as well as private personal flying (PT-19). Quit counting hours when I got around 20k. Typed in 7 different jets.

[FLS]

I read the article at a financial web site that embedded the text of the article so I didn't have to create an account to read it. And the comments section there look like there is a following of BOTS trying to make people fear Boeing. All the BOTS just happen to be ex-military and "programmers" with one saying 747 instead of 737. The article is incredibly biased while being presented by an untouchable expert. He is a commercial jet pilot and a "programmer" which is supposed to make him an unassailable expert becasue he has credentials, while presenting information anyone can get on the WEB to write a compelling article. I'm very sure part of the pilot training for the MAX was about the extra lift the new engine nacelles produced on their own. Pretty standard fair to begin a whisper campaign to damage a corporation by claiming the whole plane design killed those people thus Boeing is who killed those people knowingly producing a bad design. And this is why Trump grounded the fleet for awhile.

So what does Boeing do to resolve future issues with the MAX before this BOT and unassailable expert whisper campaign can do any real damage?

Article said he's a software developer who flies a Cessna. No indication he's ever seen a commercial cockpit.

[Toad]

So what does Boeing do to resolve future issues with the MAX before this BOT and unassailable expert whisper campaign can do any real damage?

Get it flying again ASAP. Accept the fact that there will be cancelled orders, particularly in less developed countries. The US airlines haven't had any problems with the MAX and have not indicated that they will cancel. Take a hit and offer them unused production capacity from cancellations at a lower price. Get as many MAX airplanes out there as fast as possible and get them flying. The aircraft will have as good a safety record as any other jet. This event will eventually be ancient history and the truth will out. In both accidents, the aircraft was flyable as evidenced by the FIRST Lion Air incident where they just turned off the Stab Trim Cutout and left it off.

Lastly, get out a clean sheet of paper and draw up a completely new single aisle jet aircraft. Get to the cutting edge again, like they did with the 787. Break new ground. The 737 is a GREAT aircraft but all good things come to an end.

Airbus will make huge gains out of this but their production capacity has its limits too. "NEO" or not, the A320 is no longer cutting edge either.

China will probably do well in Asia if it can get its C919 (A320 copycat...kinda) deliveries sped up and uses some of their "belt and road" type financing for buyers. The C919 isn't due for first delivery till sometime in 2021.

[Puma44]

Get it flying again ASAP. Accept the fact that there will be cancelled orders, particularly in less developed countries. The US airlines haven't had any problems with the MAX and have not indicated that they will cancel. Take a hit and offer them unused production capacity from cancellations at a lower price. Get as many MAX airplanes out there as fast as possible and get them flying. The aircraft will have as good a safety record as any other jet. This event will eventually be ancient history and the truth will out. In both accidents, the aircraft was flyable as evidenced by the FIRST Lion Air incident where they just turned off the Stab Trim Cutout and left it off.

This exactly.  Quite interested to see the maintenance history on both jets, along with all four pilots actual flying time totals and in what, before stepping into the Max 8. 

Also of interest would be how many runaway trim incidents there have been in, let’s say, the last five years worldwide in 737s?  Most likely, no one has died in those incidents because the Non Normal Checklist was properly accomplished, along with well trained, skilled/experienced pilots.

[pembquist]

Also of interest would be how many runaway trim incidents there have been in, let’s say, the last five years worldwide in 737s?  Most likely, no one has died in those incidents because the Non Normal Checklist was properly accomplished, along with well trained, skilled/experienced pilots.

Is there a publicly accessible database of incidents where you might find this information? I would be really curious how often there is a fault with runaway trim, I am guessing not very often as it seems like if you can't deal with MCAS failure then you probably cannot deal with runaway trim so I would have expected an accident in some part of the world.

[Busher]

Just curious - who here is an actual pilot either x-military or commercial/civil?

I’ll go first. I am not a pilot.

I was. Retired from a major international airline 9 years ago. Slightly over 33000 hours and 6 type ratings on various airplanes.

[bustr]

Article said he's a software developer who flies a Cessna. No indication he's ever seen a commercial cockpit.

Funny how if you embed someones article you can help up it's authority on a subject. The article I read also had the link to the same source as the one posted earlier that you had to make an account to then read the article. Most casual readers won't make the account and just read what was embedded at the financial WEB page site as gospel.

Whisper campaigns with BOT armies on the internet to ruin a person or company are about all you see anymore at open to the public news WEB sites. Be carfule what you search for because the search provider may also have an agenda. It's the old never let a good disaster go to waste.

[Busher]

This exactly.  Quite interested to see the maintenance history on both jets, along with all four pilots actual flying time totals and in what, before stepping into the Max 8. 

Also of interest would be how many runaway trim incidents there have been in, let’s say, the last five years worldwide in 737s?  Most likely, no one has died in those incidents because the Non Normal Checklist was properly accomplished, along with well trained, skilled/experienced pilots.

We have doubts about the pilots' overall abilities. Is there any reason to think that their maintenance is front line?
In addition, I saw enough unresolved pitot/static issues in the report on the Ethiopian jet that I would have refused to fly it. I have to wonder if Captain's authority in Ethiopia has any teeth or if its just lip-service.

[Vraciu]

We have doubts about the pilots' overall abilities. Is there any reason to think that their maintenance is front line?
In addition, I saw enough unresolved pitot/static issues in the report on the Ethiopian jet that I would have refused to fly it. I have to wonder if Captain's authority in Ethiopia has any teeth or if its just lip-service.

Africa is where airplanes go to die.   Maintenance there is infamously poor—which is why any airplane registered as, say, 5N (Nigeria) immediately loses 80% of its value.   

[Puma44]

We have doubts about the pilots' overall abilities. Is there any reason to think that their maintenance is front line?
In addition, I saw enough unresolved pitot/static issues in the report on the Ethiopian jet that I would have refused to fly it. I have to wonder if Captain's authority in Ethiopia has any teeth or if its just lip-service.

Good points.  Also, camels are still a mode of transportation in that area of the world.