Author Topic: More MAX information  (Read 40072 times)

Offline Busher

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Re: More MAX information
« Reply #120 on: March 20, 2019, 08:48:31 AM »
ok, this is weird. Where do you live Busher? I know several WestJet pilots as well. I can also ask my bud who flys for Canada North.

Fork in Calgary
Is being in Canada weird Mr. Fork? I am well east of you near Toronto.<S>
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Offline DaveBB

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Re: More MAX information
« Reply #121 on: March 20, 2019, 04:21:21 PM »
New reports came out today about pilots fighting the MCAS system the day before one of the crashes.  One of the jump seat passengers was a pilot and saved the aircraft.  Unfortunately the fatal flight was the next day.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2019/03/20/boeing-max-pilot-reportedly-saved-jet-one-day-before-lion-air-crash/3220891002/
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Offline Shuffler

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Re: More MAX information
« Reply #122 on: March 20, 2019, 04:40:35 PM »
Is being in Canada weird Mr. Fork? I am well east of you near Toronto.<S>

I think he was just meaning he knows several folks that fly for that airline too. Odd choice of words. LOL
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Offline Shuffler

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Re: More MAX information
« Reply #123 on: March 20, 2019, 04:41:39 PM »
New reports came out today about pilots fighting the MCAS system the day before one of the crashes.  One of the jump seat passengers was a pilot and saved the aircraft.  Unfortunately the fatal flight was the next day.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2019/03/20/boeing-max-pilot-reportedly-saved-jet-one-day-before-lion-air-crash/3220891002/

Yes... the next day they did not have a "trained" pilot on board.
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Offline Vraciu

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Re: More MAX information
« Reply #124 on: March 20, 2019, 04:43:06 PM »
Yes... the next day they did not have a "trained" pilot on board.


 :rofl :rofl :rofl :aok
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Offline Puma44

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Re: More MAX information
« Reply #125 on: March 20, 2019, 05:48:42 PM »
New reports came out today about pilots fighting the MCAS system the day before one of the crashes.  One of the jump seat passengers was a pilot and saved the aircraft.  Unfortunately the fatal flight was the next day.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2019/03/20/boeing-max-pilot-reportedly-saved-jet-one-day-before-lion-air-crash/3220891002/

The news reports don’t know for a fact they were fighting MCAS. 

A pilot was sitting on the jump seat, not a passenger. Anyone sitting on the cockpit jumpseat is considered an additional crew member.

Lion Air is going to take some serious heat for not taking the jet out of service until the issue was resolved, and doing a test flight BEFORE carrying passengers.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2019, 05:51:12 PM by Puma44 »



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Offline Vraciu

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Re: More MAX information
« Reply #126 on: March 20, 2019, 08:04:00 PM »
The news reports don’t know for a fact they were fighting MCAS. 

A pilot was sitting on the jump seat, not a passenger. Anyone sitting on the cockpit jumpseat is considered an additional crew member.

Lion Air is going to take some serious heat for not taking the jet out of service until the issue was resolved, and doing a test flight BEFORE carrying passengers.

Stabilizer Trim Runaway NNC. 

Everyone lives. 

It’s that simple. 
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Offline Puma44

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Re: More MAX information
« Reply #127 on: March 21, 2019, 10:18:59 AM »
For reference, here’s a 737 QRH procedure that could have been used in both recent incidents.

« Last Edit: March 21, 2019, 10:40:15 AM by Puma44 »



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Offline Busher

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Re: More MAX information
« Reply #128 on: March 21, 2019, 10:41:23 AM »
For reference, here’s a 737 QRH procedure that could have been used in both recent incidents.


Thank you for posting this page of the QRH. In the airline I flew for, this action was one of very few memory items. I am not certain that Boeing mandates this item to be a memory action, but I am certain that things would get creative if the pilot not flying was slow to find and action the checklist.
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Offline Puma44

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Re: More MAX information
« Reply #129 on: March 21, 2019, 11:18:25 AM »
Thank you for posting this page of the QRH. In the airline I flew for, this action was one of very few memory items. I am not certain that Boeing mandates this item to be a memory action, but I am certain that things would get creative if the pilot not flying was slow to find and action the checklist.

 :aok Yeah, same here.  As you know, it’s one of those QRH items that kinda flows with a logical “fly the aircraft” method.



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Offline Vraciu

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Re: More MAX information
« Reply #130 on: March 21, 2019, 11:47:35 AM »
Fuel for the fire.  Yeah, I know.  I am "anti-Africa" and stuff.   /sarcasm

https://www.foxnews.com/travel/ethiopian-airlines-pilot-of-doomed-flight-didnt-receive-training-on-new-simulator-report

If this is true, well...
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Offline Puma44

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Re: More MAX information
« Reply #131 on: March 21, 2019, 06:29:47 PM »
Interesting reading early this morning an ill informed article about the pilot not getting Max 8 sim training.  A simulator isn’t required to inform pilots about new software configurations, not to mention the cost of a sim session.   

My last gig didn’t have -800 sims when we transitioned.  We did online differences training.  It was the same when the 700 NGs came on line.

Nothing like another fake news article void of fact.  Yeah, he didn’t get Max 8 sim training on the MCAS, but........

The Runaway Stabilizer checklist below has been there for every model of the 737. 



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Offline Vraciu

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Re: More MAX information
« Reply #132 on: March 21, 2019, 06:40:03 PM »
Interesting reading early this morning an ill informed article about the pilot not getting Max 8 sim training.  A simulator isn’t required to inform pilots about new software configurations, not to mention the cost of a sim session.   

My last gig didn’t have -800 sims when we transitioned.  We did online differences training.  It was the same when the 700 NGs came on line.

Nothing like another fake news article void of fact.  Yeah, he didn’t get Max 8 sim training on the MCAS, but........

The Runaway Stabilizer checklist below has been there for every model of the 737.

Yeah, but that being said even you guys segregated the -200 from the rest of the fleet at the end. 

I don’t see differences as sufficient to go from a -200 to a -8, but that’s just me.   Eagl flies the MAX, perhaps he can provide some perspective. 
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Offline Busher

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Re: More MAX information
« Reply #133 on: March 21, 2019, 08:02:01 PM »
I am sad to admit that my frustration with the direction of this entire investigation is starting to boil over.

From the beginning, every suggestion has been that it's the airplane's fault. No one seems to want to even consider other possibilities.

Intelligent public statements like those of Captain Sullenberger are ignored.

The assumption that a 200 hour greenhorn could in the slightest way be an asset in the cockpit of a jet.

And now the law in the form of the FBI, has decided to insert itself.

For years banana republics have had a criminal side to the investigation of air accidents. The western world conversely has recognized that open exchange of facts and information in air travel has resulted in the safest form of transport. In Safety Managed Systems (SMS in the industry), every person involved from baggage handlers to the CEO are equally and collectively responsible to assure every flight is operated as safely as possible. All involved can be completely open without fear of legal repercussions except in the case of gross negligence or wilful misconduct (eg. drinking on the job, barrel rolls).

Should the travelling public around the world begin to believe that declining pilot experience levels are affecting their safety, enplanements worldwide will decline. For the economics involved, I have sadly concluded that the "powers that be" have already determined the outcome, in spite of what might be the truth.
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Offline Puma44

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Re: More MAX information
« Reply #134 on: March 22, 2019, 08:47:18 AM »
Couldn’t agree more, Busher.  The political stink of this far outweighs anything about what may have actually happened.  Then, there’s the agenda media.



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