Author Topic: ten random changes  (Read 5222 times)

Offline DLXIRON

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 126
Re: ten random changes
« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2019, 01:10:36 PM »

I love that list!  The idea for perking air starts is great.

Dougie

Offline FLS

  • AH Training Corps
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11597
      • Trainer's Website
Re: ten random changes
« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2019, 01:35:54 PM »
Changing puffy ack to target bombers will make it easier for fighters to sink a CV. 

I doubt the bomber pilots will see that as better game play.

There's a difference between "not as effective" and "completely ineffective" which is what the puffy is against bombers.  Even Tu-2s which are relatively squishy can just walk up to a boat and drop it with no fear of puffy at all.

Wiley.

Puffy ack has never killed a bomber or do you mean it's not effective in stopping players from bombing the CV?
What would be the correct percentage of kills?

Why should the puffy ack be more effective against bombers?  It's a preference to suit a group of players.


 

Offline FLS

  • AH Training Corps
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11597
      • Trainer's Website
Re: ten random changes
« Reply #17 on: April 02, 2019, 01:43:03 PM »
If your perks are spent regardless of outcome, the only way to mitigate the price paid is to kill fight and kill. Also, since the price paid will usually be more than a reasonable perk payout, there will be less reason for timid flying and at worst case it's a wash compared to the current system.


You skipped the part where you get more perks if you land. You may need more kills but you don't need to change your fighting style which I thought was the point for the change. Worst case people quit playing, that's not a wash.

Offline bustr

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 12436
Re: ten random changes
« Reply #18 on: April 02, 2019, 01:46:57 PM »
I get the impression over the years all puffy ack, strats, super large base, ack base and CV group is the same code. I see planes get clobbered by the 40mm and smaller air defense auto guns all the time. That means with all the targets mentioned people are willing to get in close and create activity. Making puffy accurate, who would bother level bombing strats or attack task groups or any of the targets that include puffy auto ack. I've flown in furballs next to the ack bases and what kills my green guys is getting close enough for the small caliber AA to target them. The puffy is almost like a con job to make you fly nervous which about half fly nervouse.

Seems this is a wish to cut your nose off to spite your face. Wanting accurate puffy is wanting AI to keep your toys safe so you don't have to worry about anything but your current focus. All the times puffy ack has ever killed my fighter, there was a name attached to the kill message.

You might try wish listing bomber air spawns from uncapturable feilds with a randomized radius of say 15 miles and 10-15k alt. I suspect the tank spawn randomizing code could be used and this would help lower the chances of lone interceptors hanging out waiting for easy kills. One thing to consider is if this bomber entry object was made available for the MA, how would it be presented? A minimum of feilds in each country chosen by the terrain builder. Placement rules by Hitech. If it's available to every single field with a random location spawn factor, our game is now bombers are us. If it's the terrain builder's choice with a limited number like Hitech requires 3 uncapturable, then those feilds will be identified and captured asap. We do have an ongoing problem with 2 sides swamping a third.

How do you make maps half the size and not have them flipped in a few hours? And in that scenario, you would at least want a queue of half sized maps. Which one of our lazy brethren is going to sit down and bang out maps for Hitech? Even a 5x5 takes time. It's not like with the current stable most of them can have the center 5x5 cropped out of a RAW export and introduced into the terrain editor as a RAW import and it will be hunky dory. Once you reduce the MA to a 5x5 terrain, it cannot really support three countries since the average field density for 1\4 of a 10x10 terrain is 18-27. No one has yet to convince Hitech to change to two countries. Bet very few ever considered a 5x5 really can't support 3 country game play outside of the AvA staff. Or should this part of the wish just be changed to two countries in the MA? You really wouldn't need all the strat and other objects since everything would be stuffed really close together. A 5x5 in the MA would be fighters are us since the smaller you get, the less balance of play type and domination by one you will reach. I suspect that's the idea in spirit.
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline Lusche

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23845
      • Last.FM Profile
Re: ten random changes
« Reply #19 on: April 02, 2019, 02:06:53 PM »
Puffy ack has never killed a bomber or do you mean it's not effective in stopping players from bombing the CV?
What would be the correct percentage of kills?


I have kept logs on all my bomber flights since 2012. I made 326 naval bombing runs in bombers (generally attacking from 8-10k). In all of these missions, I lost 7 planes to auto puffy, that's a loss ratio of 0.7%
As someone said before, it's just ambience, even if you are the only target around.
Steam: DrKalv
Elite:Dangerous: Snailman

Offline guncrasher

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17313
Re: ten random changes
« Reply #20 on: April 02, 2019, 02:28:09 PM »
There's a difference between "not as effective" and "completely ineffective" which is what the puffy is against bombers.  Even Tu-2s which are relatively squishy can just walk up to a boat and drop it with no fear of puffy at all.

Wiley.

this made me smile because it's true.  I can sink a CV from 6k. no need to go any higher. puffy ack has never been a problem.  once the puffy ack starts I have about 20 second to drop. once I drop I turn left and dive.  I get more damage from auto guns than from puffy ack and even then I may only get only an engine or two oiled.

but puffy ack doesn't need to be changed.  it's the fighters that that don't defend the CV.  if there's fighters nearby they're busy attacking a base to bother with bombers.

semp
you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline Wiley

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8054
Re: ten random changes
« Reply #21 on: April 02, 2019, 03:12:43 PM »
Changing puffy ack to target bombers will make it easier for fighters to sink a CV.

Not particularly.  It's rare puffy hits a dive bomber on the way in, it's usually the 5".

 
Quote
I doubt the bomber pilots will see that as better game play.

Then why have puffy at all?  Is it there to dissuade fighters only from getting too close?

Quote
Puffy ack has never killed a bomber or do you mean it's not effective in stopping players from bombing the CV?
What would be the correct percentage of kills?

I'd say you should have about a 30% chance of losing at least 1 on the way in, maybe 1 in 10 all 3 get hit.  Edit: IF you're flying straight and level.

Quote
Why should the puffy ack be more effective against bombers?  It's a preference to suit a group of players.

Because as it stands now, a bomber in on a carrier group has a negligible chance of sustaining damage.  It's a free shot.  By logic and history, that's silly.

Wiley.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2019, 03:50:20 PM by Wiley »
If you think you are having a 1v1 in the Main Arena, your SA has failed you.

JG11

Offline Spikes

  • Aces High CM Staff
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15603
    • Twitch: Twitch Feed
Re: ten random changes
« Reply #22 on: April 02, 2019, 03:17:08 PM »
I agree that puffy is rarely an issue, but I don't see why it should be extremely potent. If someone can't get in a 5" for 30 seconds and left click, the boat deserves to go down.
i7-12700k | Gigabyte Z690 GAMING X | 64GB G.Skill DDR4 | EVGA 1080ti FTW3 | H150i Capellix

FlyKommando.com

Offline bustr

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 12436
Re: ten random changes
« Reply #23 on: April 02, 2019, 03:19:45 PM »
Here is a 2.5 sector arc centered from an uncapturable airfield. A bomber airspawn could randomize all along the red line at 10,000-15,000ft. This would keep large bomber missions to normal take off and advertising the whole way, while individual players don't spend all night climbing. That arc is a gamble but at least it's paid off with alt while you are closer to the fronts on some side. It's random enough on that arc to not be gamey for anyone including fighters loitering for easy kills. I suspect if this was used frequently a few players would loiter all night with alt in traditional bomber killers for the chance of that kind of a duel. How much time does it take a box of B17 to climb to 15,000 while covering 2.5 sectors? In some ways having them closer to combat at bombing alts gets the bomber player involved sooner than later with the short USA prime time window while playing with friends and not spending large parts of that window climbing. This might be a reason if implemented to make laser guided bombing from 20k up less laser guided. This does not have the capability of turning the game into bombers are us like traditional air spawns in the FSO launches whole missions into the same airspace at alt.


bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Online Devil 505

  • Aces High CM Staff
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8764
Re: ten random changes
« Reply #24 on: April 02, 2019, 03:21:56 PM »
but puffy ack doesn't need to be changed.  it's the fighters that that don't defend the CV.  if there's fighters nearby they're busy attacking a base to bother with bombers.

If the fight is over the base, why would any player waste time capping the CV when all the fun is at the base? Sure, there's a good chance that a set of bombers will show up eventually, but it's not guaranteed.

Furthermore, launching from the CV once a set of bombers is seen on dar is a moot point of the bombers are 10K or higher. There simply is not enough time to climb that high and attack before the bombs are out. That's tough enough a prospect with a K-4 from a land base, and near impossible for a carrier fighter.
Kommando Nowotny

FlyKommando.com

Offline puller

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2209
Re: ten random changes
« Reply #25 on: April 02, 2019, 03:40:57 PM »
10 perks for 10K airspawn  :aok
"The road to Hell is paved with good intentions."
CO   Anti-Horde

Offline bustr

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 12436
Re: ten random changes
« Reply #26 on: April 02, 2019, 04:05:31 PM »
CV's have always been short windows of close range force expression that get mistaken for mobile airfields and allowed to be easily sunk due to being much more fragile than an airfield. Airfields have much higher durability so players ignore them while focusing on their narrow needs of the moment. A bad habit they exercise becasue the CV has a runway and a bit of auto ack. A wish of the same species of desire always gets thrown out for Hitech to implement some kind of automation that will keep the home field impenetrable and safe so everyone can pursue their own interests without being tied to the coitus interrupt-us of base or CV defense. Might as well make all feilds and CV uncapturable so no one has to expend any effort, otherwise, their vulnerabilities are what generates combat over them.

Randomized bomber air spawns remove the necessity for punishing people to take advantage of them and incentivize new players to use bombers. And I hope the comment was only for bombers. Fighters in the MA have the fastest ability to project force in groups. Air spawns for them would destabilize the game. Fighter sweeps by squads in the MA have a sudden impact on large fights over a field which from POTW years of experience, move the fight somewhere else and even puts an end to that evenings large scale activities. Coordinated groups of fighters with alt have a depressing effect on game play more often then in the past with hundreds in the MA acting as a dinner bell back then. It's probably why POTW doesn't spend the evening doing it as much anymore becasue it chases away a fight if another squad is not operating with numbers on the opposite side.
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Online Devil 505

  • Aces High CM Staff
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8764
Re: ten random changes
« Reply #27 on: April 02, 2019, 04:26:32 PM »
CV's have always been short windows of close range force expression that get mistaken for mobile airfields and allowed to be easily sunk due to being much more fragile than an airfield. Airfields have much higher durability so players ignore them while focusing on their narrow needs of the moment. A bad habit they exercise becasue the CV has a runway and a bit of auto ack. 

I don't suppose you are so altruistic as to spend your playtime capping the CV while the fighters are furballing over the beach and attacking the base?
Kommando Nowotny

FlyKommando.com

Offline Lusche

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23845
      • Last.FM Profile
Re: ten random changes
« Reply #28 on: April 02, 2019, 04:53:08 PM »
I don't suppose you are so altruistic as to spend your playtime capping the CV while the fighters are furballing over the beach and attacking the base?

Most of the time when airborne in CV battles, I found myself doing exactly that (if the CV was ours, of course).
Usually, only when there were enough other defenders, the CV clearly not in danger anymoreor some final hard push was needed for the capture, I went towards the base.
Carriers are way too fragile to be left unattended ;)
Steam: DrKalv
Elite:Dangerous: Snailman

Offline FLS

  • AH Training Corps
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11597
      • Trainer's Website
Re: ten random changes
« Reply #29 on: April 02, 2019, 06:32:03 PM »
Good discussion. We have timed fuse AAA which is about 25% as effective as the later war proximity fuses.