Another 737 down

[Toad]

I didn't realize until now that you were still active in the industry as an instructor.

I flunked Retirement.   I am just not good at having nothing to do. Oh, sure....at first it was great. Do all the things you've always wanted to do, spend more time on hobbies, etc.  After a while I just needed to get back into it I guess. Nice thing about it now is that I can walk away any time. I don't really have to work. I work because I enjoy it; good airplane to teach, good company to work for. If that changes "Handles: Raise. Triggers: Squeeze". Whoosh...I'd be outta there.

The best article I read on AF447 was the one by William Langewiesche. He did a great job explaining that accident chain from poor design all the way through pilot training/competency. If you haven't read it, it's worth the time.

[Oldman731]

The best article I read on AF447 was the one by William Langewiesche. He did a great job explaining that accident chain from poor design all the way through pilot training/competency. If you haven't read it, it's worth the time.

You suppose he's related to Wolfgang?

Would be helpful, you know, to post a link!

- oldman

[Vraciu]

I didn't realize until now that you were still active in the industry as an instructor. Gives me faith that young pilots are still getting the benefit of your years of experience. Hopefully they pick your brain for every bit of knowledge they can get. No one will ever convince me that flying airplanes is not an apprenticeship.

How your friend defends Airbus is very confusing - I can't think of a single thing to defend them. Never endorsed on one but I have flown the simulator - I didn't like it.

Hey.  I’m keeping these kids straight, too, ya’ know.   

Toad and I work next door to each other.  Small friggin’ world.   

I flunked Retirement.   I am just not good at having nothing to do. Oh, sure....at first it was great. Do all the things you've always wanted to do, spend more time on hobbies, etc.  After a while I just needed to get back into it I guess. Nice thing about it now is that I can walk away any time. I don't really have to work. I work because I enjoy it; good airplane to teach, good company to work for. If that changes "Handles: Raise. Triggers: Squeeze". Whoosh...I'd be outta there.

The best article I read on AF447 was the one by William Langewiesche. He did a great job explaining that accident chain from poor design all the way through pilot training/competency. If you haven't read it, it's worth the time.

I hope I’m that lucky.    I’m playing Roger Staubach-style come from behind on retirement.   Not sure I’ll make it.   May wind up dying broke as a joke in the sim instructor chair.   

[Busher]

Toad and Vraciu, I have the utmost respect for what you both do for the industry, for the young guys wanting to learn from your experience, and for yourselves... I am glad its still fun for you both.

I am still enjoying retirement covering 20 odd thousand a year with my wife on our Harley.

And I will find that article. Thanks

[Vraciu]

Toad and Vraciu, I have the utmost respect for what you both do for the industry, for the young guys wanting to learn from your experience, and for yourselves... I am glad its still fun for you both.

I am still enjoying retirement covering 20 odd thousand a year with my wife on our Harley.

And I will find that article. Thanks

Thanks, man.  I had good examples like you, Toad, Puma, etc. to follow.   Commuting to my job flying for the Regionals in cockpits flown by pilots like you was the best CRM Training I could have asked for.    I just hope to pass some of that along to guys and gals who weren’t blessed with the same opportunity.   

Enjoy yourself.  Well-earned.   

[pembquist]

You suppose he's related to Wolfgang?

Would be helpful, you know, to post a link!

- oldman

He is his son.

Air France article: https://www.vanityfair.com/news/business/2014/10/air-france-flight-447-crash

[FTJR]

He is his son.

Air France article: https://www.vanityfair.com/news/business/2014/10/air-france-flight-447-crash

Great article and propthetic at the same time.. Last paragraph

Next time it will be some other airline, some other culture, and some other failure—but it will almost certainly involve automation and will perplex us when it occurs

[pembquist]

You should read his article on the A320 and the Hudson River ditching: https://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2009/06/us-airways-200906

[Vraciu]

Great article and propthetic at the same time.. Last paragraph

Next time it will be some other airline, some other culture, and some other failure—but it will almost certainly involve automation and will perplex us when it occurs

I mentioned Heino Caesar of Lufthansa.   He was fighting this battle from almost the day the 320 came out.   I wish I could read German as most of his work is not in English.   

[Oldman731]

He is his son.

Air France article: https://www.vanityfair.com/news/business/2014/10/air-france-flight-447-crash

A magnificent article.  Thanks to Toad for bringing it up, and you for finding it for us.

- oldman

[Vraciu]

A magnificent article.  Thanks to Toad for bringing it up, and you for finding it for us.

- oldman

+1

I am reading it now and my hair is standing up.   Geeze.

[Busher]

+1

I am reading it now and my hair is standing up.   Geeze.

I just finished it and I am almost sick to my stomach. It may sound simple but I will argue (again) that until automation can be made fail-safe, pilots have to be trained (for as long as it takes and no matter what the cost), to calmly "see the big picture" and fly the airplane.

[DmonSlyr]

I haven't posted in this thread simply because I generally respect the actual pilots opinions on this thread and have mostly just been reading them. I believe that too much software is always a bad thing when it contradicts a pilots normal response. Like Trump said, "just let the pilots fly the plane". It keeps them more aware in the cockpit anyway. Being able the hack a planes software and remotely fly them is what scares the crap outa me. So many suspicious plane crashes this year already...

[Toad]

to calmly "see the big picture" and fly the airplane.

And that, as you might expect, is the focus of the ground school discussion of this AF447 tragedy.

There has been a re-emphasis on flight control problems, pitot-static problems, AOA problems and (in my particular aircraft) stall barrier malfunctions in the simulation phase of training as well.

The ancient "maintain aircraft control, analyze the situation and take proper action" mantra still works in the computer age.

[Busher]

And that, as you might expect, is the focus of the ground school discussion of this AF447 tragedy.

There has been a re-emphasis on flight control problems, pitot-static problems, AOA problems and (in my particular aircraft) stall barrier malfunctions in the simulation phase of training as well.

The ancient "maintain aircraft control, analyze the situation and take proper action" mantra still works in the computer age.

I could not support what you do more, Toad. BUT - 3rd world airlines are still going to put people carriers in the air with automation techs at the controls. And they will sour the long-held belief that "you are safer in an airliner.... etc."