Author Topic: Yak3 Drag modelling  (Read 24394 times)

Offline Bushmills

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Yak3 Drag modelling
« on: May 22, 2019, 12:19:11 PM »
Is this plane for real or what?  :headscratch: Took one out yesterday and you can manhandle it any way you choose, through all sorts of energy sapping maneuvers on the deck and then pull the nose straight up and up up you go like a rocket, I know it has good power to weight but it seems pretty ridiculous in my eyes.  :rofl

Offline FLS

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Re: Yak3 Drag modelling
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2019, 01:49:27 PM »
If the drag is wrong why is the climb rate and top speed correct?

Offline Bushmills

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Re: Yak3 Drag modelling
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2019, 03:00:16 PM »
If the drag is wrong why is the climb rate and top speed correct?

It was correct on the dr1 when it came out...until it wasn't  :rofl

Offline pembquist

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Re: Yak3 Drag modelling
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2019, 04:18:04 PM »
I don't think anybody here has flown a real Yak-3 so whether or not it is "overmodeled" is not really resolvable. However, that said, it is a weird bland aeroplane with about as much personality as a turnip. It is the plane I hate the most and when I have tried flying it I feel like I am in a video game, (oh, wait.) It's only weakness as far as I can tell is that it doesn't have Hispano's or a lot of bullets. Pro pilots may disagree. It is substantially faster than a top of the line Spitfire and seems even easier to fly and faster to rebuild energy. It is a dirty dirty plane. Worse than the LA-7
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Offline bustr

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Re: Yak3 Drag modelling
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2019, 05:34:48 PM »
Kind of sounds like the design analysis and combat flight reports I was reading today. It had a superior low alt sudden climb against the Bf109-G6 and earlier models. And it regained speed quickly at lower combat alts. Supposedly the small narrow tapered wings gave it low speed stall problems that happened suddenly starting at the wing tips and landing\take off stability issues. I don't see many Yak3 in the game wing stall and auger low and slow. They just seem to float out of it while spits around them auger. But, the manuals for Yak3 and spit from WW2 never tell you to pop flaps to low speed turn fight. Online games are hotbeds of pushing the limits of simulated things that were never pushed that way in real life due to the problems with dieing. In our game we try to fly everything like it is an RV8 on steroids with guns. I'm not sure many would know how to evaluate Hitech's rides like a real WW2 pilot would for the same conditions and outcomes that existed in his real life.

I was reading A6m analysis reports today of combat tests against allied fighters. Could not find any references to popping flaps, dragging for an overshoot, spiral climbing to pitch back against the lower plane's stall. All references to HOing did not sound good for the A6m and was considered a reasonable tactic against A6m. Then in our game, I see A6m win HO all the time and fly on.

Now I did watch a film of a Yak3 in NZ this year on landing clip a loading crane with it's wing. The wing snapped off at the mounting point for the landing gear motor mount. The rest of the air frame handled the subsequent grinding around on the ground and the pilot got out OK. Since the Yak3 became the magic ride dejur, I've listened to many complaints about the wings being indestructible while the air frame absorbed all kinds of hits with no damage. Or, fly the Yak3 and it will screw your Internet connection until you land. Who knows................ :rolleyes:
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Offline Bushmills

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Re: Yak3 Drag modelling
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2019, 05:57:46 PM »
I've listened to many complaints about the wings being indestructible while the air frame absorbed all kinds of hits with no damage.

I would say it just a combination of it being very small and having many hit areas, making it less likely you'll accumulate enough hits in one area to produce a failure.

If anyone wants to look at planes that have had their drag reduced go look at the AI in match play you'll see the similarity to the yak3 I noticed it within 10 minutes of playing against them.

Offline Bushmills

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Re: Yak3 Drag modelling
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2019, 06:02:10 PM »
There should be a way to devise a rough in game test  :headscratch:

Offline FLS

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Re: Yak3 Drag modelling
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2019, 06:25:18 PM »
It was correct on the dr1 when it came out...until it wasn't  :rofl

You didn't answer the question. Top speed and climb rate are ways to test drag.

You can also test best sustained turn speed for induced drag.

The Dr1 and Camel had a similar climb rate and top speed in real life, just as they do in the game.

Offline Bushmills

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Re: Yak3 Drag modelling
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2019, 07:01:33 PM »
You didn't answer the question. Top speed and climb rate are ways to test drag.

You can also test best sustained turn speed for induced drag.

The Dr1 and Camel had a similar climb rate and top speed in real life, just as they do in the game.

You must not have played WW1, until the fm was tweaked the DR1 was hands down the better plane

Offline FLS

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Re: Yak3 Drag modelling
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2019, 07:11:12 PM »
The Dr1 is still the best turning WW1 aircraft.

You still haven't answered the question. What do you think is wrong with the Yak 3 drag model?


Offline Oldman731

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Re: Yak3 Drag modelling
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2019, 10:09:17 PM »
It is a dirty dirty plane. Worse than the LA-7


Heh.  Agreed!  But it's a good first plane for newcomers, and there's always going to be one fighter that's better than all the rest, for one reason or the other.

- oldman (hey, back in the day, it was the Spit 9.  Look how times have changed.)

Offline Vulcan

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Re: Yak3 Drag modelling
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2019, 11:01:28 PM »
Or, fly the Yak3 and it will screw your Internet connection until you land. Who
knows................ :rolleyes:

There are a couple of notable Yak-3 pile-its that develop internet issues when someone is on their 6. I can get behind them down easy enough in the 9U (and 9T even). It's clearly deliberate.

I have a theory around the Yaks in that being such a small target that wing mounted gun packages are only half effective. Some guys who are very effective with their convergence can be brutal (eg some of the 56th in jugs). Then you have the yaks ability to disengage, so a Yak picking up an oil leak can often get out of the fight.

Offline FLS

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Re: Yak3 Drag modelling
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2019, 02:16:49 AM »
The Yak3 has the Yak9 engine in a smaller lighter airframe. It's a little beast.

Offline Shuffler

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Re: Yak3 Drag modelling
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2019, 07:30:58 AM »
There are a couple of notable Yak-3 pile-its that develop internet issues when someone is on their 6. I can get behind them down easy enough in the 9U (and 9T even). It's clearly deliberate.

I have a theory around the Yaks in that being such a small target that wing mounted gun packages are only half effective. Some guys who are very effective with their convergence can be brutal (eg some of the 56th in jugs). Then you have the yaks ability to disengage, so a Yak picking up an oil leak can often get out of the fight.

You realize that when you get closer to an object it update more. Any lag or issues with hops will become obvious at that time.
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Offline Bushmills

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Re: Yak3 Drag modelling
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2019, 11:29:40 AM »
The Dr1 is still the best turning WW1 aircraft.

You still haven't answered the question. What do you think is wrong with the Yak 3 drag model?

Well I should have thought that was obvious, it needs more of it!