Yak3 Drag modelling

[CptTrips]

Maybe because I found some co-efficient of drag data that Hitech hadn't seen.  Nobody said the Dr1 model was perfect, that's your straw man, it was the best model from the available data and it was improved.  It's still the dominant dogfighter.

If I thought you were worth it, I would go dig out all your quotes of dismissive snark from 2009, 2010, attacking anyone who was questioning the FM just like now. 

[Wiley]

If I thought you were worth it, I would go dig out all your quotes of dismissive snark from 2009, 2010, attacking anyone who was questioning the FM just like now.

The thing is, the questioning is based on what, exactly?  A lot of people post saying what planes shouldn't be able to do in here, extremely few follow that statement with any backup on what they should be able to do.

It basically boils down in the vast majority of cases to, "I don't know what's right, but this is wrong."

Wiley.

[CptTrips]

The thing is, the questioning is based on what, exactly?  A lot of people post saying what planes shouldn't be able to do in here, extremely few follow that statement with any backup on what they should be able to do.

It basically boils down in the vast majority of cases to, "I don't know what's right, but this is wrong."

Wiley.

Fair point, yet our gut feel proved correct in the DrI case even though we were also told then our concerns were baseless.  With insufferably arrogant snark.


So maybe instead of trying to snark the discussion into silence, the effort could instead be focused on working with the community in a more constructive manor to try and reason out what the issue might be and try and figure out how you could test it to prove or disprove.

Or just greet any suggestion with a sneer.
                                             

[FLS]

If I thought you were worth it, I would go dig out all your quotes of dismissive snark from 2009, 2010, attacking anyone who was questioning the FM just like now.

What's wrong with the FM? Nobody can say. You think it should have more parasitic drag? Do you know how little speed difference that makes vs induced drag in a turn?

I don't recall any dismissive snark about any legitimate flight model questions. If you have something more than a feeling by all means share it so we can have the best model possible.

[JOACH1M]

I try to be good, but I was born to be bad...     

[Bushmills]

I don't recall any dismissive snark.

And that's exactly your problem...

[Devil 505]

The thing is, the questioning is based on what, exactly?  A lot of people post saying what planes shouldn't be able to do in here, extremely few follow that statement with any backup on what they should be able to do.

It basically boils down in the vast majority of cases to, "I don't know what's right, but this is wrong."

Wiley.

More like "I don't know if this is right, but it seems wrong in some cases."

How exactly is induced drag factored into the game's flight model? FLS says that induced drag is proportional to lift. By what proportion? Would it not also be affected by the change in airflow over the non lifting portions of the aircraft when turning?

unlike the OP, I do not feel the Yak-3 is actually broken. That real plane was a beast, as is ours.

[Wiley]

Fair point, yet our gut feel proved correct in the DrI case even though we were also told then our concerns were baseless.  With insufferably arrogant snark.


So maybe instead of trying to snark the discussion into silence, the effort could instead be focused on working with the community in a more constructive manor to try and reason out what the issue might be and try and figure out how you could test it to prove or disprove.

Or just greet any suggestion with a sneer.
                                           

I'm not exactly trying to be snarky, but this line of thought kind of irks me.  How precisely does one prove or disprove it without being able to say what the correct result is?

It's an assertion that could literally be made for any vehicle in the game.  "I don't know if this is right, but it seems wrong."

With the DR1, tbh I don't recall it, but per FLS's post above, some actual evidence was provided to show it was wrong?  That is a significant difference from just saying "This seems wrong."

Wiley.

[save]

Flying at 100% infinitely without engine overheating, is not correct in the Yak3, it should have WEP.
Damage model should be corected to be the same as the similar sized La-7, that actually die.

[bustr]

If you gents want to seriously get into this, contact MeierMotors GmbH in Germany. They do restoration and maintenance on the modern Yak-3M which were all made from the original blue prints at Strela in Orenburg south of Moscow. Probably for a fee they can send you the flight data you are arguing over. Hitech may well have contacted them for it since Yak-3 are flying today. Or, all of you raise your hands who thinks Hitech pulls this out of his whatsis and makes it all up just to rip you off for $14.95.


http://www.meiermotors.com/index.php/home

[Chalenge]

I mostly pay my $0.50/day just so I can watch people argue that their allegorical, yet non-factual opinions beat the best flight simulation available online. Meanwhile, in other sims, if you get too loud on the forums they just categorically banish, delete, and otherwise water-board their users.

Which beer goes best with a Yak-3 and popcorn discussion?

[Arlo]

Which beer goes best with a Yak-3 and popcorn discussion?

[Chalenge]

Hehe, I was thinking Sam Adam's Pale Ale.

[Oldman731]

unlike the OP, I do not feel the Yak-3 is actually broken. That real plane was a beast, as is ours.

Agreed.  It is an amazing plane, but we don't even have any anecdotal information indicating that it's wrong.  We just don't like it because it's so good.

With the (very old, in another game) P-47, and the (this game) FW190A8 complaints, at least people could point to real pilot accounts indicating that the modeling was not imitating life.  Haven't seen that so far with the Yak3.  In fact, way back when, didn't someone post Nazi instructions that pilots were supposed to be wary of the Yak3?

- oldman

[FLS]

I'm not exactly trying to be snarky, but this line of thought kind of irks me.  How precisely does one prove or disprove it without being able to say what the correct result is?

It's an assertion that could literally be made for any vehicle in the game.  "I don't know if this is right, but it seems wrong."

With the DR1, tbh I don't recall it, but per FLS's post above, some actual evidence was provided to show it was wrong?  That is a significant difference from just saying "This seems wrong."

Wiley.

There is very little good consistent  information on WW1 aircraft. The Dr1 was never shown to be wrong it was simply debated without facts. I posted some drag information Hitech hadn't seen before and I'm assuming that's the change referred to.