Reward effort not just success

[bustr]

It doesn't have to be a participation trophy even though in the past FESS's idea has been treated harsher, and accused of being participation trophy's for showing up. Personally I rarely look at how many perks I have and rarely fly perked rides unless it's something fun with my sqaud. Still, taking our generation of vets out of the picture for a moment. Can the reward system in the MA be leveraged to help a younger demographic feel like they are accomplishing something in our simple but brutal environment commiserate to their gaming experiences?

Most of us will ignore simplistic rewards other than landing more than 3 kills and the bovine smelly mud slinging that allows you on 200. For them, just about anything overt to validate functioning long enough to destroy something is gold. Unless they belong to a squad, all of their accomplishments are alone and no one knows how they helped their country. That aloneness and not even a good job you made a difference is a problem generationaly for the younger generations. Consider, we have all forgotten what its like to make it back and land with one kill and an assist that very first time years ago. For many of us that was the sum of our accomplishments for months or even years. Our generation said be a rugged individual and suck it up until you make it. Theirs as you can see from other games that hold their attention, give them more validation along the way than our game ever has since I've been here.

As for new players, do we really want them to crawl nude on their knees through salted glass shards while we kick them in the teeth and they get nothing for the abuse by us? Our past retorts about participation trophy's has been a resounding "yes".  AH3 is not an easy game to play for up to a year on average where it comes to air to air kills or even surviving all of us vets looking for kills on jabo and GV's. I suspect FESS is looking at that and what motivates younger gamers from his broad participation in other combat titles populated with younger gamers.

[FESS67]

Well put Bustr.

This is not about everyone getting a gold star for just turning up.  This is about the tangible recognition for a player that they did something.

TC, you may know that hidden deep in the bowels of AH there is a scoring system that knows the player did something.  The problem is that in game the player landed 2 bombs on the VH because his team said they need it down and then he damaged 5 fighters or GVs as they fought to take the base.  He did not destroy a building and he did not score a kill on a plane or tank.

He lands and the system tells him quite clearly that his last sortie was worth nothing.  WTG kid, let's do all that again 

I am not advocating name in lights or anything like that, in fact I would rather see that turned off.  Just give the player some feedback on their efforts.

[TequilaChaser]

Bustr's and Fess'  reply #15 & #16, I liked and I am in agreement with the Topic Title of this thread!

"Reward effort, not just Success"

Besides using "perk points", does anyone have any ideas on how HTC might could think about implementing other than adding some new "New Player Starting Accomplishments", that would encourage & award new players in a way that would make them stay longer than 30 minutes (or the 2 week free trial)

One thing that I had always thought would be of help concerning the 2 week free trial was to keep the 2 week free trial, but switch it up a little bit,  by making that 2 weeks a "Real Solid 2 Weeks" of logged in online 2 weeks (meaning giving the New Player 336 hours of online time... 14 days X 24 Hrs = 336 Hours (2 weeks)

Maybe have a timer that shows up in the clipboard or in the top right corner of the screen counting down from 336.00 Hours to 0.01 Minutes for the free trial....only using their 2 weeks of free trial, when they are logged into the game...not losing time  because they are at school, work, etc.....

Just some of my thoughts on the matter

TC

[FLS]

If the game doesn't suit somebody they aren't going to stay. If the game suits them they likely won't worry about partial victories any more then we did.

The reward system that was previously added is the achievements.  Is there any indication that adding achievements increased retention?

I think the best way for newbies to get a kill is by fighting another newbie. Take two newbies, show them the basics, and let them kill each other, they'll probably have more fun doing that than following people around until they get killed in the MA.
They get rewarded both for effort, because they're learning, and success, because they're more evenly matched so they win a few.

Plus, the newbies can fly together as wingmen, which is another good way for newbies to enjoy the MA.

[TequilaChaser]

If the game doesn't suit somebody they aren't going to stay. If the game suits them they likely won't worry about partial victories any more then we did.

The reward system that was previously added is the achievements.  Is there any indication that adding achievements increased retention?

I think the best way for newbies to get a kill is by fighting another newbie. Take two newbies, show them the basics, and let them kill each other, they'll probably have more fun doing that than following people around until they get killed in the MA.
They get rewarded both for effort, because they're learning, and success, because they're more evenly matched so they win a few.

Plus, the newbies can fly together as wingmen, which is another good way for newbies to enjoy the MA.

Thank you for the correction regarding Achievements (not accomplishments)

Do you have a solution for newbies of finding each other, so they can fight each other and/or wing together?

[FLS]

I recommend newbies be encouraged to request training whenever players encounter them. I always recommend to trainees that they find someone at their level to duel and wing with but first they have to learn what to practice and how ACM works.

Even a new player who's an ace in another sim can learn something about controller/view setup or game mechanics.

Of course any player can train a newbie if they have the time and inclination, it doesn't need to be a trainer. 

[FESS67]

Thinking further on this, if the game is already recording the achievements then perhaps little has to change other than add an after action report.

There are many things that could easily be included in the report.  Flight time, rounds fired, rounds hit, number of enemy hit, damage done etc etc.  world of warships does this quite well.

It gives the player that sense of achievement even if no kills were made.

[The Fugitive]

I recommend newbies be encouraged to request training whenever players encounter them. I always recommend to trainees that they find someone at their level to duel and wing with but first they have to learn what to practice and how ACM works.

Even a new player who's an ace in another sim can learn something about controller/view setup or game mechanics.

Of course any player can train a newbie if they have the time and inclination, it doesn't need to be a trainer.

This is great in thought, but it rarely happens. If there was some kind of indication to a newbi he hit something/ damaged something I think it could add to the experience. Maybe make it a switched item so it can be turned off at a later date.

Anything that helps a newb feel like hes "getting some where" would be a plus.

[TequilaChaser]

Thinking further on this, if the game is already recording the achievements then perhaps little has to change other than add an after action report.

There are many things that could easily be included in the report.  Flight time, rounds fired, rounds hit, number of enemy hit, damage done etc etc.  world of warships does this quite well.

It gives the player that sense of achievement even if no kills were made.

That is a very interesting Idea you have there, FESS!

maybe make it a pop-up, something like:  "Do You Want to Review your AAR (After Action Report)?  YES  ---  NO

and make it a Switched or Toggled item, that can be turned off, but is turned on by Default


TC

[Vraciu]

Thinking further on this, if the game is already recording the achievements then perhaps little has to change other than add an after action report.

There are many things that could easily be included in the report.  Flight time, rounds fired, rounds hit, number of enemy hit, damage done etc etc.  world of warships does this quite well.

It gives the player that sense of achievement even if no kills were made.

I remember in Microprose’s Apache game you earned medals.   You could look at these in your “shadow box” next to your rank insignia, etc. etc.   it also popped up after missions.   AH achievements are text based.   Why not be able to earn a Bronze Star or DFC for a well-flown mission?   Put it on your wall in the O’Club or something. 

[FLS]

This is great in thought, but it rarely happens. ...

That's because saying "you'll enjoy the game more after a free training session" is so painful and difficult. 

[The Fugitive]

That's because saying "you'll enjoy the game more after a free training session" is so painful and difficult. 

you can say it all you want, most players want to just dive in and play. They dont even look at instructions/ directions  sheets any more. It's not the lack of trainers or people willing to help, it the newbs themselves who dont want to take the time to learn/figure out/practice how the game works.

The old "you can lead a horse to water, but you cant make him drink" deal.

[FLS]

I think you missed my point.  The newbie players that just dive in are not successful, this provides an opportunity to recommend training at a time when the player is more likely to be receptive to the idea. If a new player hears that from one person it may work. If they hear it from 20 people they are more likely to try it.

Learning the basics of turning, gunnery, and ACM in one lesson is not enough to be successful but it's a huge head start on required knowledge. We've all seen the "I want to learn by myself" type struggle for years with the basics.

Lead a thirsty horse to water and watch what happens.

[atlau]

I'd agree showing "xxx landed by damage" might be cool to see.

"999000 landed 12 kills, 5 assists, and 0 damage in his b17 deathstar" )

[Volron]

Not so much as "name in lights", but rewarded for effort put forth.  The "name in lights" thing should remain more or less as is.

One spends 20m getting somewhere, shoot up a few planes in the process, knocking off a rudder here, oil-ing an engine there, then got shot down.  When nothing is gained at all, it can be a bit of a turn off, even if they knew they inflicted damage on a target that ultimately resulted in it having to turn back or is finished off by someone else's hand.

Example:  I flank a Tiger 2 and track it with an M8, but get whacked by said Tiger 2.  This will make it easier to take it out by someone else since it's now stationary, but a little dribble of perks for it would be nice even if that's all I managed to do that sortie.