limit eny when we have low players

[Ack-Ack]

Yep.   It’s making people log off.     That’s one of its stated purposes.    (And in that regard it is working like a charm.) 

Please show were one of ENY's stated purposes is to cause players to log off.  I've never recalled HiTech saying such a thing.

[Vraciu]

Please show were one of ENY's stated purposes is to cause players to log off.  I've never recalled HiTech saying such a thing.

He did.   I've quoted/linked to the comment multiple times.    I don't really feel like searching for it again.    Maybe someone else will dig it up.

[Vraciu]

Please show were one of ENY's stated purposes is to cause players to log off.  I've never recalled HiTech saying such a thing.

Parse away.


https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,383603.msg5115414.html#msg5115414

Eny was designed to balance game play do to an imbalance a different number of players on each side.

It does this
1. By creating an incentive for players to change sides
2. By giving an advantage to the country with less players.

Has I consequence some players may also log off which also helps the issue of side balance, as compared to pre ENY when players would log off do to side imbalance it made the problem worse.


HiTech

[Shuffler]

That is not a stated purpose. That is a consequence in some cases.

[FLS]

Why do you think all we care about is score?  Projecting?  You're a majority of one either way.

The other arenas are emptier than the MA.  So let's try again.

Keep burying your head in the sand.  If you don't look at the bear he can't eat you.

I never said anyone cared about score. I made a conditional statement. 

Do you suppose I suggested inviting someone to go with you because the other arenas are often empty? 

[Vraciu]

That is not a stated purpose. That is a consequence in some cases.

Like I said, parse away.   

I don't care how you categorize it, it's bad.  And perfectly acceptable apparently.   

You call it a side effect, he calls it a mechanism for balancing.    “[It does this, this, and] ‘also’ [this].”


con·se·quence
/ˈkänsikwəns/

noun
1.
a result or effect of an action or condition.


Action = Result

[Vraciu]

I never said anyone cared about score. I made a conditional statement. 

To drill into your comment further, if you’re looking for a fight you’re also out of luck.  Your conditional statement was accusatory—and incomplete.

Do you suppose I suggested inviting someone to go with you because the other arenas are often empty? 

Do you suppose nobody has tried that yet?   A hundred times?

If I found inviting someone to an empty arena fun (it's not) then we wouldn't be having this discussion.    It's superfluous, to boot. 

I say this without malice: You are seen here for what you are and it's not helping.  So, you can keep that up if you wish.   Just be sure to turn off the lights before you leave.

[Shuffler]

Like I said, parse away.   

I don't care how you categorize it, it's bad.  And perfectly acceptable apparently.   

You call it a side effect, he calls it a mechanism for balancing.    “[It does this, this, and] ‘also’ [this].”


con·se·quence
/ˈkänsikwəns/

noun
1.
a result or effect of an action or condition.


Action = Result

I read Hi-Tech's whole post past just the bold. Seems he said it was the lesser of two evils. He said before eny people logged off because of side imbalance, making it worse.

[Vraciu]

I read Hi-Tech's whole post past just the bold. Seems he said it was the lesser of two evils. He said before eny people logged off because of side imbalance, making it worse.

Back when you had 150 players that may have been so, but we are well within the “region of reversed command” on it now...

Hell, based on this thread alone you’ve eleven people who have posted.   Of the seven discussing ENY directly four of us are saying we log off because of ENY not due to being outnumbered.   

It’s time to tweak this a bit.   Lusche made an interesting comment.   

[Ack-Ack]

Like I said, parse away.   

I don't care how you categorize it, it's bad.  And perfectly acceptable apparently.   

You call it a side effect, he calls it a mechanism for balancing.    “[It does this, this, and] ‘also’ [this].”


con·se·quence
/ˈkänsikwəns/

noun
1.
a result or effect of an action or condition.


Action = Result

You need to brush up on your reading comprehension.  In that quote, HiTech never said the stated purpose of ENY was to get people to log off.  He did admit that it was a consequence of ENY that some will log off but clearly the stated purposes were to 1) get players to switch sides and 2) give an advantage to the out numbered side(s). 

There is no need to misrepresent what HiTech said to try and make a point.

[FESS67]

As this discussion develops a few things become obvious.

FLS, you are not debating the topic, you are just throwing comments and avoiding actually coming up with either an argument or a rebuttal.  Your input is IMO not really valid.

On to the substance of the discussion.

I understand the history behind ENY.  I am not sure how the data presented itself to determine that enough players were leaving to make ENY the better of 2 evils but for the sake of argument let’s accept it as fact.

Do the conditions that existed then exist now?  Given the reduction in active players is there a case to revisit the question and consider some alternatives?

From an holistic view, I think it would be better to explore how to INCLUDE players rather than EXCLUDE them.

Making a decision to make less people leave is surely not the way to go.  How about we try to find a way to make people stay!

No other game I play takes stuff away.  It makes me earn stuff but never says “yeah mate, I know 10 minutes ago you had that but yeah nah you cannot have that now.  Why not come back later just in case you can have it then?”

For me the obvious #1 easy fix is to have no side switch timer when moving to the low population side.  The stated aim was “to create an incentive for players to change sides”.  Then locking them in to that side is working against the first directive because they often the dynamic changes and they are stuck without a fight.

Of course, that can happen at any time but what is the harm in allowing a free change to the low side?

[Shuffler]

The side switch timer could use some looking at. Where I used to switch sides quite a bit, I rarely even look at numbers now. The timer slowed my switching and then stopped it almost entirely.

I do however understand where there were those few that were abusing it at times.

[FLS]

To drill into your comment further, if you’re looking for a fight you’re also out of luck.  Your conditional statement was accusatory—and incomplete.
...

Now who's projecting?  I simply said people who don't care about score can fight in another arena.

It's a real stretch to make that an accusation, maybe that was the incomplete part that required your imagination for assistance.

As this discussion develops a few things become obvious.

FLS, you are not debating the topic, you are just throwing comments and avoiding actually coming up with either an argument or a rebuttal.  Your input is IMO not really valid.

And here is Fess deciding that someone who disagrees with him does not have any valid input.  What a curious argument.

So you keep posting the same complaint hoping for a different result.  How's that working for you?

I'm confident of my arguments and rebuttals despite your inability to perceive them.

[Vraciu]

You need to brush up on your reading comprehension.  In that quote, HiTech never said the stated purpose of ENY was to get people to log off.  He did admit that it was a consequence of ENY that some will log off but clearly the stated purposes were to 1) get players to switch sides and 2) give an advantage to the out numbered side(s). 

There is no need to misrepresent what HiTech said to try and make a point.

I can read quite well, thanks.   

ALSO means in addition to. 

Consequences are results.   

Thus one of the three listed and acceptable RESULTS/CONSEQUENCES of ENY is to cause people to log off.


The PURPOSE is side balancing.    One of the ways this is done, supposedly, is by people logging off.


Expressly and clearly stated.

Eny was designed to balance game play...

It does this
1. By creating an incentive for players to change sides
2. By giving an advantage to the country with less players.

[ 3. ] [ S ]ome players may also log off which also helps the issue of side balance...

 ...

HiTech

1 - Encourage side change.
2 - Give advantage.
3 - Cause log off.

The third option seems to be winning out over option one.   It looks like it is time to rebalance rebalancing.

[Vraciu]

Now who's projecting?  I simply said people who don't care about score can fight in another arena.

NO.  They CAN'T.   Unless tangling with B-17s that pull 12 Gs is considered fighting.

It's a real stretch to make that an accusation, maybe that was the incomplete part that required your imagination for assistance.

I'll let Fess' assessment of your commentary speak for me here.

And here is Fess deciding that someone who disagrees with him does not have any valid input.  What a curious argument.

So you keep posting the same complaint hoping for a different result.  How's that working for you?

It's not working one bit, as the numbers continue to show, but he's trying to get the message across any way.  That's better than pretending everything is grand.

I'm confident of my arguments and rebuttals despite your inability to perceive them.

To steal from Reagan, the problem with some people is they know so much that isn't so.  Your arguments are being proven wrong day after day after day.   Numbers don't lie.