limit eny when we have low players

[atlau]

HiTech - i wish for the opposite...increase ENY effects (scale them up or however the algorithm works) and encourage side balancing by always allowing people to go to the low sided country.

[hitech]

HiTech - i wish for the opposite...increase ENY effects (scale them up or however the algorithm works) and encourage side balancing by always allowing people to go to the low sided country.

Can people ever switch to the high side?
If they can what is to prevent someone from switch to the high side to find some one, then instantly going back to the low side?

HiTech

[FLS]

Most players learn to accept the collision model as the best imperfect solution to the issue. ENY is also a best imperfect solution except it deals with human nature instead of travel time on the internet.

A better solution to both would be great, but what we usually see is people not fully understanding the issue and just wanting it turned off or somehow adjusted to affect them less or affect someone else more.

[Vraciu]

Bull, You complain because you do not like how it effects the way you wish to fly.

I complain BOTH ways.   When it hits me I can't fly my ride.

When it hits them they leave.   

Neither is ideal.

You also fail to take into account that more targets would log off if ENY did not exist. How do I know this, because I saw the consequence of not having ENY. You guys are whispering compared to the grumbling that was happening before side balancing was implemented.

You seriously believe you'll have even more log off than in the scenario the OP posted?  I find that hard to fathom.

P.S.
Knock off trying to put words in my moth.

HiTech

I didn't.   I quoted you directly.   If that's not your intent then that's fine, but it's what you wrote--and is precisely what is happening in the OP's scenario.     When you have 20 players and people login, see ENY, and leave, that helps no one.

[hitech]

You seriously believe you'll have even more log off than in the scenario the OP posted?  I find that hard to fathom.

You really need to fathom harder.

HiTech

[FLS]

... I didn't.   I quoted you directly.  ...

You stated that a consequence was an intentional feature. You edited the quote where it was clearly an unintended consequence that still had some benefit for the issue of imbalance.

[Vraciu]

You stated that a consequence was an intentional feature. You edited the quote where it was clearly an unintended consequence that still had some benefit for the issue of imbalance.

No.  I showed the two ways that ENY balances numbers based on his very words. 


1) Switching Sides
2) Logging Off


This is simply not disputable.


If it's not intentional then change it.

[Vraciu]

You really need to fathom harder.

HiTech

Perhaps you do, too, and here's why.    What you have in the arena during the scenario posted are the most loyal players left.   There are four in this thread alone.

The old Morning Crew used to be highly active.   I've seen ENY run them almost entirely off one by one by one, myself included.   Things have changed.

[FLS]

...
If it's not intentional then change it.

You still miss the point. I'll assume that's on purpose since the concept is simple enough.

[Vraciu]

You still miss the point. I'll assume that's on purpose since the concept is simple enough.

The point is clear.   Balance.   It is allegedly achieved one of two ways.   Side switch.   Log off.  As has been pointed out by multiple people in this thread, with low numbers you're getting only the latter.   That's the way it is currently.   

[FLS]

The point is clear.   Balance.   It is allegedly achieved one of two ways.   Side switch.   Log off.  As has been pointed out by multiple people in this thread, with low numbers you're getting only the latter.   That's the way it is currently.   

The point I was referring to is that the best solutions can still have negative consequences.  Balance is unlikely, reducing imbalance is the intent. Logging off is a negative consequence that helps balance but it's not ideal, it's just better than greater imbalance or increased log offs.

You may have a different opinion. 

[bustr]

With today's average prime time window in the MA being about 2 hours. Side switching once every 60 minutes might alleviate some of this as long as 120+- is the average large number of players on a good night. Off peak with lower than 70 players, since Hitech wants ENY in place 24x7, a 1 hour switch is about equal to the current 6 hour switch where finding activity is concerned. Shorter switching times were showcased in the AvA to end up with one side hoarding the other side due to computer gamer human nature. And would be the norm in the MA if it were reduced to two sides.

Three sides is pretty healthy for conflict. Planetside has upwards of 3000 players on during prime time and waiting queues to get into one of it's three factions for the 24x7 slaughter fest. There you are forced to create a new character for each country and start it out from scratch with nothing and grind it back up to uberdom or drop a credit card. The capture the flag\territory aspect of AH works better with three countries. Two countries and Hitech would have to force side balancing breaking up squads and friendships which is the core of why AH kept subscriptions all this time and it's doors open. Most people playing this game are not here to be fighter jocks. They are here for the overall game while playing it with their friends. Fighter jocks are a tiny and very loud minority of Hitech's "customers".

[Vraciu]

The point I was referring to is that the best solutions can still have negative consequences.  Balance is unlikely, reducing imbalance is the intent. Logging off is a negative consequence that helps balance but it's not ideal, it's just better than greater imbalance or increased log offs.

You may have a different opinion. 

I don't ENTIRELY disagree.    Only partially within a narrow window. 

I also advocate a reduced side switch window as Bustr mentions above.  That seems unlikely to change, either, however, so all this is moot.  It's Dale's business.   He calls the shots for good and bad.

And Bustr, we are ALL a tiny minority by default lately.   You people ran off nearly all the fighter guys you deride in every post.   How's that working out for you?  You having fun with more bases than players spread three ways on giant maps?  I contend YOU are the minority here--or a majority of one or two.

[hitech]

The point is clear.   Balance.   It is allegedly achieved one of two ways.   Side switch.   Log off.  As has been pointed out by multiple people in this thread, with low numbers you're getting only the latter.   That's the way it is currently.   

First your leaving out balance of game play via lesser / better planes.

And exactly how is balance going to be achieved with out ENY, you seem to think it will just magically happen. But if that were true then ENY would never be an issue.

Or possibly you believe that forcing people to have lesser planes is worse then being out numbered.  Because that is all the ENY does. It is simply a trade off between having numbers or better planes or choose a different side.

But you complete ignore the fact that being overwhelmed and out number is not fun. People will log then also, but that only makes the imbalance worse and hence the problem worse . Or the player changes sides and again the problem becomes worse.

You stated that

It’s making people log off.  That’s one of its stated purposes

That is absolutely not it's purpose, in fact it's purpose is just the opposite,to keep more people playing.

And to state that it is it's purpose is putting words in my mouth.
Purpose implies intent per Webster "something set up as an object or end to be attained". Side effects are different then purposes. Or do you think dry mouth is the purpose of decongestants.

HiTech

[FLS]

Bustr ran off the fighter guys? How powerful he has become. 

The urge to dominate the arena with a crack squad of top fighters appeals to a lot of people.

Unless you have similar squads on all three sides the crack squad kills the fights by easily killing all the other fighters.

That's great when you want to end the war and go home. In a game where people are not compelled to play with you the enemy has to have fun too.