Author Topic: Question - Is the current dar setting working for the better?  (Read 443 times)

Online Vraciu

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Re: Question - Is the current dar setting working for the better?
« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2019, 09:51:21 PM »
I'd be curious if the kill/hr rate has changed with the different dar settings.

It's harder to sneak up on people so fights will generally.last longer when you engage but I think there are more engagements/time since you aren't having to play Marco polo looking for enemy fighters

You would have to factor player numbers then versus now to come up with a meaningful number, but I think it is safe to say engagements per player hour would drop dramatically from today if it was eliminated.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2019, 11:33:25 PM by Vraciu »
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Offline guncrasher

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Re: Question - Is the current dar setting working for the better?
« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2019, 10:42:11 PM »
think a lot of you guys forgot back what it was like to head to a base with a full dar and not see any enemy fighters, there would be reports of somebody see 1 plane and not seeing 6 passing him by.

the new dar settings encourages fights.  some chose to run away, but then again if you see several coming your way, you would pull back and see where they are.  dar bar doesnt give you altitude, they could be above or below you.

think it was a good change and no reason to get rid of it.


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Offline save

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Re: Question - Is the current dar setting working for the better?
« Reply #17 on: November 07, 2019, 08:30:47 AM »
Setting down radar downtime when it is destroyed would be effective against it. It favors the defender but if they want to fight they can find it.
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Offline edge12674

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Re: Question - Is the current dar setting working for the better?
« Reply #18 on: November 07, 2019, 09:32:36 AM »
The Dar Bar has limitations that are exacerbated with arena maps that are too big.   Understanding it/them isn't the issue.

I agree with this totally!  SA is a crucial part of aerial warfare and should not be made too simple.  With the player base we currently have the maps should be much smaller.  This would help cut down on alt monkeys, cut down the hunting for combat, and provide quicker fights.  This makes it more appealing to new players.  The center island in the ndisles map is a good example of what HT should use as a "quick combat" arena.  Perhaps we could have just the center island where the fields cannot be captured, but the closest fields could be damaged.  You would have a good place for aerial combat (both B&Z and turnfighting) and a center town for ground warfare.

Perhaps we could treat aerial contacts like we do ground contacts.  Have a dar bar and square within the sector.  No info on how many or exact location/heading unless within radar coverage.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2019, 09:37:09 AM by edge12674 »

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Offline icepac

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Re: Question - Is the current dar setting working for the better?
« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2019, 10:32:58 AM »
Stealth is just as important as Situation Awareness but stealth has been removed from the sim.

Offline DmonSlyr

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Re: Question - Is the current dar setting working for the better?
« Reply #20 on: November 08, 2019, 10:50:54 AM »
I liked the old radar better. That being said, the radar on the field should have been made harder to take down. The entire problem was that the dar would immediately be the first thing players would attack, very easily, which would end all of the dots showing up inside the radar circle. This caused the new players not to be able to see any dots around the base, thus they didn't know a fight was going on, since they dont really understand the darbar when they first start. Harder to take down radsrs means players would see the cons longer when they entered the radar circle. Personally, I dislike how one green guy makes all of the cons around him appear on the radar. This creates ganging and lines of players going to shoot the green guy. It also does take away from the stealth aspect. Also, perhaps changing the distance you see enemies to 3K would greatly reduce ganging, much like the FSO, when cons cannot see you from 5K out, they may be less likely to come help their friend triple dog gang you.

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Offline waystin2

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Re: Question - Is the current dar setting working for the better?
« Reply #21 on: November 08, 2019, 11:28:12 AM »
I liked the old radar better. That being said, the radar on the field should have been made harder to take down. The entire problem was that the dar would immediately be the first thing players would attack, very easily, which would end all of the dots showing up inside the radar circle. This caused the new players not to be able to see any dots around the base, thus they didn't know a fight was going on, since they dont really understand the darbar when they first start. Harder to take down radsrs means players would see the cons longer when they entered the radar circle. Personally, I dislike how one green guy makes all of the cons around him appear on the radar. This creates ganging and lines of players going to shoot the green guy. It also does take away from the stealth aspect. Also, perhaps changing the distance you see enemies to 3K would greatly reduce ganging, much like the FSO, when cons cannot see you from 5K out, they may be less likely to come help their friend triple dog gang you.
Ganging is routine and expected in FSO. The icons have no bearing on this.  Last week my 109G14 was engaged by and eventually tore apart by 3-4 Seafires and an F6F.  A gang as you would say.  Food for thought.
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Offline Mister Fork

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Re: Question - Is the current dar setting working for the better?
« Reply #22 on: November 08, 2019, 11:57:36 AM »
The current dar - where you see aircraft on the radar if you can see them visually, is 100% historically accurate. I've said this before, every air control operations room had a map board with all known aircraft spotted by friendly aircraft who would report them in when detected. All a pilot would have to do is a radio call into ops and a plotter would take their information, update their position on the map board, and then tell them any other friendly or unknown/known enemy aircraft in their area, their type, location AND altitude (which we DON'T have on our map board.) In that case, WWII pilots sometimes had it better than we do with our map board.



In essence, the updated map board system reflects that functionality 100%. It's just gamified to make it easier to use, and it makes it harder to surprise-jump an opponent (if they're in the map view). No different than you don't have to be continually adjusting your mixture, cowl flaps, engine heat management, prop adjustments, monitoring your oxygen system, and other aircraft systems usually required by WWII pilots... unless you're flying an FW-190.  The 190 was a pilot's dream from a cockpit management perspective.  :D

So, I'll take the map board and dar settings as a modified operations centre which we now call the CIC. :salute
« Last Edit: November 08, 2019, 12:09:49 PM by Mister Fork »
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Offline Shuffler

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Re: Question - Is the current dar setting working for the better?
« Reply #23 on: November 08, 2019, 01:17:55 PM »
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Offline DmonSlyr

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Re: Question - Is the current dar setting working for the better?
« Reply #24 on: November 08, 2019, 01:19:04 PM »
Ganging is routine and expected in FSO. The icons have no bearing on this.  Last week my 109G14 was engaged by and eventually tore apart by 3-4 Seafires and an F6F.  A gang as you would say.  Food for thought.

Welllll I'm not saying it won't or doesn't happen in FSO. Nor would it stop ganging in the MA. I just think 3K makes it easier to drag planes away from the fight in order to separate them from their friendlies to reduce the chance of being ganged. From 5K out they can be-line it right to you and help their friendly. From 3k out, it makes it a little bit harder to be-line from 5k. 3-4 guys could still see you and follow you, though I find that with 3K distance, players who dont see you are less likely to roll in and gang you. Most of the time in FSO, I can drag cons away from their friends and have a easier time in a 1v1 or 1v2. If there was a 5K view in the FSO, I'd probably get jumped much more. Just something I've noticed.

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Offline Shuffler

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Re: Question - Is the current dar setting working for the better?
« Reply #25 on: November 08, 2019, 01:20:42 PM »
Welllll I'm not saying it won't or doesn't happen in FSO. Nor would it stop ganging in the MA. I just think 3K makes it easier to drag planes away from the fight in order to separate them from their friendlies to reduce the chance of being ganged. From 5K out they can be-line it right to you and help their friendly. From 3k out, it makes it a little bit harder to be-line from 5k. 3-4 guys could still see you and follow you, though I find that with 3K distance, players who dont see you are less likely to roll in and gang you. Most of the time in FSO, I can drag cons away from their friends and have a easier time in a 1v1 or 1v2. If there was a 5K view in the FSO, I'd probably get jumped much more. Just something I've noticed.

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Offline whiteman

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Re: Question - Is the current dar setting working for the better?
« Reply #26 on: November 08, 2019, 01:28:08 PM »
I use to like the strategy that went into looking at dar bars and trying figure an intercept path to jump the con/mission.

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Offline guncrasher

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Re: Question - Is the current dar setting working for the better?
« Reply #27 on: November 08, 2019, 01:40:34 PM »
FSO fights normally end in one big ganbang.

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Offline waystin2

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Re: Question - Is the current dar setting working for the better?
« Reply #28 on: November 08, 2019, 02:12:54 PM »
Welllll I'm not saying it won't or doesn't happen in FSO. Nor would it stop ganging in the MA. I just think 3K makes it easier to drag planes away from the fight in order to separate them from their friendlies to reduce the chance of being ganged. From 5K out they can be-line it right to you and help their friendly. From 3k out, it makes it a little bit harder to be-line from 5k. 3-4 guys could still see you and follow you, though I find that with 3K distance, players who dont see you are less likely to roll in and gang you. Most of the time in FSO, I can drag cons away from their friends and have a easier time in a 1v1 or 1v2. If there was a 5K view in the FSO, I'd probably get jumped much more. Just something I've noticed.
Of course orders can have a huge effect on how and when you engage the enemy and in what way.  That particular frame we were the first to find the carrier planes and we were the the tip of the spear so to speak.  Our job was to mix it up and boy howdy was it a fun one!  :aok
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Offline Wiley

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Re: Question - Is the current dar setting working for the better?
« Reply #29 on: November 08, 2019, 02:32:24 PM »
I use to like the strategy that went into looking at dar bars and trying figure an intercept path to jump the con/mission.

If you're the first one in, the gameplay is still the same.  For missions, you also have a much better chance of getting helpful friendlies once you're close enough for the mission dots to show on dar because once the dots appear, people will notice them as opposed to bardar or text on country channel.  I think it's a net benefit.

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