Lion Air Report

[Vraciu]

Both Airbus and Boing lost alot of money on their 4 engined planes, both A380 ( FAL being closed), and 747-8 (FAL being closed).

Boeing didn’t lose much on the -8 at all, if anything, especially compared to the 380.   A tax write-off isn’t always a direct loss. 

Also, the -8 put price pressure on the 380 which is partly why the latter imploded.   The -8F will make the overall program profitable for Boeing and with the demise of the 380 it just might increase demand for the aircraft long-term.

And Boeing has made a killing on 777/787.

Airbus should have died back in the days of the 300, but the 380 would have done it, too.   They exist solely due to direct government subsidy. 

[Ramesis]

Not all of us.

Sorry Puma... but we are in front of a monitor and in a chair without wings or an engine, then by definition we are all armchair pilots 

[save]

2 engined planes like 777, 330 and later 787, 350 killed the 4-holers as passenger planes, an era that probably never will come back.


Lets see what Boeing - Embraer can do vs Airbus - C-series (220). interesting times indeed.


Sweden SAAB set up a FAL with Embraer in Brazil- the JAS Gripen.

Boeing and SAAB won USAF contract for the T-X trainer , Airbus is lagging in military applications.

[Vraciu]

2 engined planes like 777, 330 and later 787, 350 killed the 4-holers as passenger planes, an era that probably never will come back.

Not exactly.  ETOPS regulations killed the tri-jet.   Engine technology combined with ETOPS and RVSM mortally wounded four-engine jets.   But they still have their place.  Turnaround times still matter, though, so they can become TOO big like the 380, which was a triumph of ego over common sense.

Lets see what Boeing - Embraer can do vs Airbus - C-series (220). interesting times indeed.


Sweden SAAB set up a FAL with Embraer in Brazil- the JAS Gripen.

Boeing and SAAB won USAF contract for the T-X trainer , Airbus is lagging in military applications.

Boeing is going to be too prideful to listen to Embraer.   I don't predict good things as a result.   Embraer is masterful at building airplanes, particularly the 145/Legacy 600 & 650 and 170/190/E2.    Boeing will thumb their noses at the Embraer way and hose themselves--again.

[Vraciu]

Grats!


.... and Puma I should have said "competent pilot" of course. 

Thanks, bro.   

[Puma44]

Grats!


.... and Puma I should have said "competent pilot" of course. 

No sweat, my friend.  Just a friendly reminder that books, simulators, and computers a competent pilot does not make.

[Puma44]

Sorry Puma... but we are in front of a monitor and in a chair without wings or an engine, then by definition we are all armchair pilots 

You are more than welcome to assume that status.  I chose otherwise.

[Ciaphas]

Sorry Puma... but we are in front of a monitor and in a chair without wings or an engine, then by definition we are all armchair pilots 

You are comparing apples to buckets of water.

When discussing a real life event from a professional standpoint, you are not being an arm chair general.

To be an arm chair general would be that dude crying on country that base A is priority over base B.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Puma44]

Good analogy. 

[Vraciu]

Agreed.

It's disappointing that reports from individuals as knowledgeable and respected as Mr. Feith do not top the headlines as often as the drivel that the talking heads regurgitate. Time will tell if the damage to the Boeing Company is reversible.

You can say that again.

[Vulcan]

The US did not say it was bad. It is just a security issue. That is a communist country.

Nah it was all good until they started competing with a US Company  - Cisco... who used to get Huawei to make their kit.

[Busher]

Boeing and Airbus are in the business to sell airplanes - lots of airplanes. Development and Certification costs demand huge sales numbers. As you have said, the bill for the A380 debacle must be biblical.

But its time that Regulators world wide get together and set a uniform minimum standard of pilot performance. I don't really care if the American, Canadian, British or German standard is used (or a combination of all) to set the base line but the status-quo left untouched is going to lead to a lot more death.

For your consideration:

1: Garuda Indonesia Flight 200 (GA200/GIA 200) was a scheduled domestic passenger flight of a Boeing 737-400 operated by Garuda Indonesia between Jakarta and Yogyakarta, Indonesia.[1] The aircraft overran the runway, crashed into a rice field and burst into flames while landing at Adisutjipto International Airport on 7 March 2007.

-The Captain attempted to land the airplane at 220 knots - more than 80 knots fast. When his First Officer asked him to go around, all the Captain could say was "landing checklist complete, right?"

2: Asiana Airlines Flight 214 was a scheduled transpacific passenger flight from Incheon International Airport near Seoul, South Korea, to San Francisco International Airport in the United States. On the morning of 6 July 2013, the Boeing 777-200ER crashed on final.

- Of the claimed more that 20000 flying hours between the 2 pilots, neither had ever hand flown a visual approach to a landing. The weather was clear and the winds were light.

3: Indonesia AirAsia Flight 8501 was a scheduled international passenger flight operated by Indonesia AirAsia – an AirAsia Group affiliate – from Surabaya, Indonesia, to Singapore. On 28 December 2014, the Airbus A320 flying the route crashed into the Java Sea, killing all 162 people on board.

- A snag not critical to safety lead the Captain to try an unapproved circuit breaker reset. His action led to the loss of all automation and neither pilot had the basic operating skills to prevent a total loss of the aircraft and its contents.

4: TransAsia Airways Flight 235 was a TransAsia Airways domestic flight from Taipei to Kinmen (Quemoy), Republic of China. On 4 February 2015, the aircraft serving the flight, a ten-month-old ATR 72-600, crashed into the Keelung River shortly after takeoff.

- After an engine failure the Captain disengaged the autopilot and shutdown the healthy engine. Post accident tests proved that had he left the autopilot engaged and done nothing, the airplane would have flown safely.

I didn't even mention Air France 447 but these are only a few examples of unconscionable incompetence. For those not yet convinced, I can list dozens more. I for one, cannot understand the strange inner-confidence that must exist in these individuals that allows them to take an airplane into the air. The manufactures along with the training organizations they contract are overdue for a butt-kicking. What they are turning out in the interest of selling a larger fleet of jets, just ain't making the grade.

[guncrasher]

Of course no American pilot ever crashed and airplane due to pilot it training error.


semp

[Ciaphas]

Of course no American pilot ever crashed and airplane due to pilot it training error.


semp

I don't recall anyone stating that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[guncrasher]

I don't recall anyone stating that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

implied, read 2 post before.  only foreign airplane crashes listed.  also has been mentioned several times of shoddy maintenance on the 2 specific crashed talked about, while in the us, well it happens too.  several crashes due to faulty maintenance.

been looking at the list of airplane crashes on wikipedia, the one that made me laugh is this one, oh the irony, Daallo Airlines Flight 159.  only the suicide bomber died.  the untrained pilots managed to land back.

I once saw a recreation of an airplane crash, think I mentioned before, the airplane was giving both high speed and stall warnings, low terrain, and many others.  they asked this expert what he would have done, and he gave the best answer.  "based on what I know now, I would have put the plane in cruise control and wait for the other plane to catch up to me, but I wont question what the pilots did, I wasnt there, I dont know the confusion they felt".

none of you guys were there, you may have experience and be top of your training class/best at your job, but none of you were there.  you read the after reports and say, well it was an easy fix, airplane could have been saved.  but you still werent there.  I even find it hilarious, when I mentioned they had 100's of flights without a crash and somebody said well they were lucky, it's automated or something like that.

so when somebody said you were arm chair captains or something like that, it's true.  but I'll apologize if you tell me that while flying that plane, the same malfunction happened, you identified it correctly and landed that plane.

semp