Two sides

[Wiley]

AvA is empty because of other reasons, not side numbers. 

And if we keep going like this we will have an empty three-sided arena to go with it.

We had a popular AvA in WBs that for some strange reason became empty overnight and in its place the two-sided Main became the go-to arena.   It was a blast.   We never had any of these apocalyptic problems everyone on here uses an excuse to stick with something that doesn't work at current levels. 

You can blast me all you like, but the fact remains that an arena with three-sides now causes more problems than it solves.

And we've got an example where 2 sides had the problem I've been stating all along, and that problem was alleviated by 3 sides.

How many people are in that 2 sided WBs arena these days?  Does it get above 10?  That was what I saw when I checked their arena counter last during prime time.  Are you proposing to follow their practices at this point?  Or do you figure like Archie once they rewrite the game again in another engine they'll be back on top again?

Wiley.

[Vraciu]

And we've got an example where 2 sides had the problem I've been stating all along, and that problem was alleviated by 3 sides.

How many people are in that 2 sided WBs arena these days?  Does it get above 10?  That was what I saw when I checked their arena counter last during prime time.  Are you proposing to follow their practices at this point?  Or do you figure like Archie once they rewrite the game again in another engine they'll be back on top again?

Wiley.

Numbers then were double at least what we have here now. 

I predicted the slide here and told you all what would happen.  Three sides are simply going to accelerate the falloff because a third of the players can be ignored.

You effectively have two sides now.   They ignore the third side which is causing people to leave.   Boredom is not a motivator.  With two actual sides at least that ignored group can find a fight.

Ignore this at your peril.

[perdue3]

Well, we never had these issues in WB.    Maps ebbed and flowed.   People switched for balance.   It was a dynamic environment.    I also don't think we even had ENY, either.

Understandable. But, people DO NOT switch for balance in Aces High. Rightfully so in many ways, the wait time to switch again is brutal. ENY is meant to help the low side by either leveling the playing field or convincing people on the high side to switch or log off. Sadly, it just does not work when there are very few people on.

This current system used to work, but doesn't now. The reasons why it no longer works are numerous. Most of the reasons can be traced back to a very small population. 1 hour switch time meant that switching was essentially risk-free. I used to switch just because I saw a good furball or wanted to run with ghi in missions. But now, switching is basically a daily commitment. If I logged on right now and switched, I can't switch again until the evening. Just so happens I am not working today, so in an ordinary situation  I could switch once for I only have about 6 hours to play anyway.

[Vraciu]

Understandable. But, people DO NOT switch for balance in Aces High. Rightfully so in many ways, the wait time to switch again is brutal. ENY is meant to help the low side by either leveling the playing field or convincing people on the high side to switch or log off. Sadly, it just does not work when there are very few people on.

This current system used to work, but doesn't now. The reasons why it no longer works are numerous. Most of the reasons can be traced back to a very small population. 1 hour switch time meant that switching was essentially risk-free. I used to switch just because I saw a good furball or wanted to run with ghi in missions. But now, switching is basically a daily commitment. If I logged on right now and switched, I can't switch again until the evening. Just so happens I am not working today, so in an ordinary situation  I could switch once for I only have about 6 hours to play anyway.

You are correct.  Side switch time limits work in opposition to ENY.  They will definitely need to be modified.

[Wiley]

Numbers then were double at least what we have here now. 

I predicted the slide here and told you all what would happen.  Three sides are simply going to accelerate the falloff because a third of the players can be ignored.

You effectively have two sides now.   They ignore the third side which is causing people to leave.   Boredom is not a motivator.  With two actual sides at least that ignored group can find a fight.

Ignore this at your peril.

Yep.  You've been saying doom all along.  By the look of things 2 sides didn't seem to do much to stop the slide over there.  Where's the proof of benefit to 2 sides again?

Wiley.

[Vraciu]

Yep.  You've been saying doom all along.  By the look of things 2 sides didn't seem to do much to stop the slide over there.  Where's the proof of benefit to 2 sides again?

Wiley.

And I've been right. 

The issues with that place had nothing to do with two sides and you know it. 

This is a waste of time.   Hitech is going to use three sides until he closes the doors so I see no point discussing it further.    At this point, unless we figure out the new-player-retention issue three sides only exacerbates the problem we see unfolding before our eyes.  The latter issue (retention) is the ultimate salvation for the game and I don't have an answer.

[SPKmes]

Zack after creating this post



















 and then from the first reply

[Wiley]

And I've been right. 

The issues with that place had nothing to do with two sides and you know it. 

Say doom long enough, eventually you'll be right.  Congratulations, water is wet.  I'm trying to remember what arena numbers were like when I left around 2010...  I remember the thought process at the time among other things was numbers here were much better.

This is a waste of time.   Hitech is going to use three sides until he closes the doors so I see no point discussing it further.    At this point, unless we figure out the new-player-retention issue three sides only exacerbates the problem we see unfolding before our eyes.  This latter issue is the ultimate salvation for the game and I don't have an answer.

Yup on all counts.  And while going to 2 sides might help, as I've said all along, citation needed.  So far it's 1-0 for 3 sides alleviating the problem I stated elsewhere.  Going to 2 sides helping is not as clear-cut and obvious as it's been presented, and I don't see anything to indicate that ENY would work any better than it does now with 2 sides.  People don't move, they log.

Wiley.

[yipi]

A good experiment would be to just add an Online Mission in the Arena under the Melee one that only has two sides with a Medium size map. It could be just like the Melee one where the planes are not country  dependent (choose what u want). At first only have it available few times a week to see if players like it so that it doesn't take away from the Main Melee. It would be worth the try and that way its shouldn't hurt anything. I would not want ENY to be active. With two sides it would balance out on its own if not then some players or squads should be asked to swap by the Moderator

[CptTrips]

Where's the proof of benefit to 2 sides again?

Where's the proof of benefit to 3 sided again? 

The current numbers trend?  Any more of that benefit and Hitech will need 16x16 mi terrains.

[CptTrips]

This current system used to work, but doesn't now.

Mic drop.

[Wiley]

Where's the proof of benefit to 3 sided again?

H&G.  Planetside 2 has 3 sides and seems to work decently, although their numbers went down from launch similarly to what's going on in AH, IMO for similar reasons that have little to do with 2 or 3 sides.  Open FFA side based PVP is still a niche within a niche.

The current numbers trend?  Any more of that benefit and Hitech will need 16x16 mi terrains.

Again, would you rather play in an arena where you've got the "winners" and "losers" side versus what we have now?  I wouldn't.  Also regarding your comment about sometimes getting rolled in BF.  Yeah, for one what, 30 minute round?  Then it resets.

WT clone or dating simulator.  That is the path forward.

Wiley.

[Vraciu]

Say doom long enough, eventually you'll be right.  Congratulations, water is wet.  I'm trying to remember what arena numbers were like when I left around 2010...  I remember the thought process at the time among other things was numbers here were much better.

Yup on all counts.  And while going to 2 sides might help, as I've said all along, citation needed.  So far it's 1-0 for 3 sides alleviating the problem I stated elsewhere.  Going to 2 sides helping is not as clear-cut and obvious as it's been presented, and I don't see anything to indicate that ENY would work any better than it does now with 2 sides.  People don't move, they log.

Wiley.

It's not about saying doom long enough.  It's about looking down the tracks and seeing the train coming.   I was hit by it once.   I know exactly what it looks like.   

AH has a benefit of no direct competitor in terms of open-world-persistent-arena but that dog only hunts so long.  When a third of your player base is being ignored on the battlefield eventually they quit.

Two sides will alleviate that problem.   

Three sides may SEEM to be 1-0 but that's a default judgment based on overflowing arenas.    We're not there now.    With current numbers any benefit to three sides is easily outweighed by its negative effects.

Any way.   People are voting with their feet and an exodus can be a much bigger avalanche than an influx.  Time is a wastin' to solve the riddle.

[Vraciu]

Where's the proof of benefit to 3 sided again? 

The current numbers trend?  Any more of that benefit and Hitech will need 16x16 mi terrains.

Mic drop.

Mic drop.

+1

[Bruv119]

I say go 5 sides,  but split into country specific planesets.   It would also get HT to fill a few Niche planes to help balance things.

Of course USA would roll most maps because of where the game is based but once a team loses all of its airfields they are out until its 2 nations when one of the 2 remaining teams hits 80% then flip the map and start with all 5 again.  What it would do is promote people switching teams to fly their favourite aircraft rather than blind chess piece loyalty.

Once Team USA has more and more players their ENY will make them all fly p40s and we can have fun shooting them all down.