Author Topic: How have we lost so many people to this wonderful game?  (Read 61979 times)

Offline Lusche

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Re: How have we lost so many people to this wonderful game?
« Reply #120 on: December 18, 2019, 12:00:28 PM »
There has got to be a way to compile data concerning player loss against major updates with a two month buffer after each change implementation to include the changes that AH3 implemented upon release.


I did something similar (population vs majore gameplay changes)  in the past, that's the base for my post above.
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Offline CptTrips

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Re: How have we lost so many people to this wonderful game?
« Reply #121 on: December 18, 2019, 12:01:16 PM »
Which they won't do the 20th time in the last half hour where their free plane got smashed with no chance against their opponent?

:rolleyes:  Wiley, many companies use variation of the F2P model successfully and make more money doing it than HTC has ever dreamed of.  The model has several advantages like not scaring the player away too soon demanding a subscription.  The longer you maintain contact with the potential customer, the more opportunity you have to convince them to finally convert.


Yup, and they're matched up against equivalent planes.  You don't go in with a biplane against P51Ds.

You're just making stuff up.  No one said they have to fly a biplane. 

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Offline Vraciu

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Re: How have we lost so many people to this wonderful game?
« Reply #122 on: December 18, 2019, 12:01:20 PM »
Do you prefer they uninstall the game completely?

In games like WT, don't the F2P have access to inferior hardware?  Or at least have to grind harder?  Some how WT makes money.

In the past when I've suggest a F2P set of planes, I proposed that flying those planes they could grind out perk points to let them occasionally fly a premium plane to get a taste of what subscribers get. 

In reality, the plane is probably not their limiting factor.  You could put them in ME-262 and it wouldn't make any difference.  So let them have the F2P planeset (which puts variety back in the arena), and someday they may learn enough to actually take advantage of a better plane when they subscribe.



BF doesn't have F2P , but they do have just a one time purchase model.  Until the next version or DLC. ;)  They've been doing that since 2003 and making billions.

I was thinking along these lines, too.   You can earn perk points and check out a "premium" ride now and then.   Or if you rank top three for a tour you get one free month of everything--but you don't get two in a row, that way others have a chance to win the prize.
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Offline Ciaphas

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Re: How have we lost so many people to this wonderful game?
« Reply #123 on: December 18, 2019, 12:08:07 PM »

I did something similar (population vs majore gameplay changes)  in the past, that's the base for my post above.

I kind of figured you did


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Offline DmonSlyr

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Re: How have we lost so many people to this wonderful game?
« Reply #124 on: December 18, 2019, 12:12:28 PM »

That's the problem:
There were no no specific catalyst changes that more or less suddenly impacted the population. At some point, AH hit a peak, held it for some time and then started to drop gradually. There were no significant changes at that time anything could be attributed to.
So if anything, it's possibly more a lack of changes. But which ones? You will get a plenty opinions about that here on the BBS. ;)

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Splitting the arenas was the single greatest disaster to happen to AH.

I think also switching to AH3 needing a better computer was also a big one for most of the older folks. Though they should get a new computer...

So how do you guys propose to allow the free players any kind of success or fun in the MA when they're in their Hurri 1's or whatever against a world of LA7s and Spixteens?  They're already at a severe penalty in that they have no experience, they have no joystick, and they're in inferior equipment.

In something like BF, bullets still work, and the paying members move at the same speed the free guys do.

Wiley.

Why feel bad for players who are playing for free? They would actually provide better fights for real subscribers and would know that they have the opportunity to subscribe if they want the better planes. It's a win win for everyone. At least they could still play the MA even if it's in an older plane. Id keep it at a spit5 and a 109F, because you don't want planes that people can fly easily without having to pay the subscription. It would be great for the European crowd with the lowest #s. A hurr 1 or a spit1 or 109e would be too hard, I agree, but a spit5 + 109f would give them a small chance.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2019, 12:15:17 PM by DmonSlyr »
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Offline Wiley

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Re: How have we lost so many people to this wonderful game?
« Reply #125 on: December 18, 2019, 12:15:17 PM »
You're just making stuff up.  No one said they have to fly a biplane.

I was going by WT where the first plane I had access to at the time was some kind of biplane.  It was matched against similar planes that were somewhat better.  You weren't thrown in against everything they had available.  All vehicle-heavy games give you a "fair" fight when it comes to the equipment.

Spit 5 or 9, sure, ok.  It will mitigate things slightly.  They still don't have much of a chance compared to the games you're trying to mimic.

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Offline CptTrips

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Re: How have we lost so many people to this wonderful game?
« Reply #126 on: December 18, 2019, 12:16:44 PM »

I did something similar (population vs majore gameplay changes)  in the past, that's the base for my post above.

So here is what I think the problem is.  You can not understand what has happened to HTC just by looking at changes to AH over time. 

That is assuming that HTC did something wrong to "break" Aces High.   I don't think that is necessarily the case.  I think it is more a matter of how the competitive landscape AH is embedded in has changed drastically and their models have not kept pace or found a successful counter model.

Charting the decline in AH population against game changes internal to AH may not be illuminating.  You may need to look externally not internally.  Chart the decline in Aces High population against:

WWIIOnline
Release of BF:1942
Release of BF2
Release of BF3
Release of BF4
Release of BF1
Release of BF5
War Thunder
Wold of Tanks
World of Warships
PUBG
Console gaming
Etc. Etc. Etc.

Which is why I don't think what Ciaphas and other were suggesting of rolling the clock back, will work.  You can not roll the clock back on the whole world including your competitors. 

What worked great in 1999, or 1888 will not necessarily work now. 

 :salute







 
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Offline FBKampfer

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Re: How have we lost so many people to this wonderful game?
« Reply #127 on: December 18, 2019, 12:18:33 PM »
There has got to be a way to compile data concerning player loss against major updates with a two month buffer after each change implementation to include the changes that AH3 implemented upon release.


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This assumes there was some fundamental shift in the game that killed it, which may be (and I believe to be) inaccurate.


AH has always (at least since I joined around 05 or so) been a much older demographic than, say, Anthem, or Titanfall.

It has, broadly, failed to attract and retain younger people. Squeakers not withstanding, they are certainly an exception, whereas on the consoles, they're just another day online.

Your player demographic simply aged. Many (certainly more than have been posted on the forums) have literally died of old age.


Say it's only 50 people since 2005 (unlikely), well when the arenas only held like 700 on Titanic Tuesdays, that's literally 7% of your player base dying (as a low estimate).



The game is insanely inaccessible to the majority of potential players. The interface feels old as hell, we literally use dot commands for regular game interface like it's still '95. Most of you have been here at least a decade, would whip the toejam out of a noob while literally 2 bottles of jack deep, and you are (or at least used to be) colossal love muffines on 200 and country chat whenever a noob chimed in.


Most of you will complain about (or at least think it) kids these days not having the attention span, or determination, or thick skin, or whatever. But that's not going to bring the heyday back, and actively hinders solutions.

You'll either see the game change significantly or it'll eventually close up shop. Or maybe you'll just be another name posted on the forums, read by fewer and fewer people.

Whichever the case, there's simply no going back.
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Offline Wiley

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Re: How have we lost so many people to this wonderful game?
« Reply #128 on: December 18, 2019, 12:20:38 PM »
So here is what I think the problem is.  You can not understand what has happened to HTC just by looking at changes to AH over time. 

That is assuming that HTC did something wrong to "break" Aces High.   I don't think that is necessarily the case.  I think it is more a matter of how the competitive landscape AH is embedded in has changed drastically and their models have not kept pace or found a successful counter model.

Charting the decline in AH population against game changes internal to AH may not be illuminating.  You may need to look externally not internally.  Chart the decline in Aces High population against:

WWIIOnline
Release of BF:1942
Release of BF2
Release of BF3
Release of BF4
Release of BF1
Release of BF5
War Thunder
Wold of Tanks
World of Warships
PUBG
Console gaming
Etc. Etc. Etc.

Which is why I don't think what Ciaphas and other were suggesting of rolling the clock back, will work.  You can not roll the clock back on the whole world including your competitors. 

What worked great in 1999, or 1888 will not necessarily work now. 

 :salute

This times eleventy.

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Offline FBKampfer

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Re: How have we lost so many people to this wonderful game?
« Reply #129 on: December 18, 2019, 12:20:51 PM »
Why feel bad for players who are playing for free? They would actually provide better fights for real subscribers and would know that they have the opportunity to subscribe if they want the better planes. It's a win win for everyone. At least they could still play the MA even if it's in an older plane. Id keep it at a spit5 and a 109F, because you don't want planes that people can fly easily without having to pay the subscription. It would be great for the European crowd with the lowest #s. A hurr 1 or a spit1 or 109e would be too hard, I agree, but a spit5 + 109f would give them a small chance.

Because, genius, unless they're something more than fodder for the vets, none of them are going to stick around.
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Offline Wiley

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Re: How have we lost so many people to this wonderful game?
« Reply #130 on: December 18, 2019, 12:24:13 PM »
Because, genius, unless they're something more than fodder for the vets, none of them are going to stick around.

One factor that's really working against this game is the vast majority of gamers IMO will not tolerate unfairness for long.  That's another major factor working against this game.  It's entirely possible for you to wind up in a nearly unwinnable situation through no fault of your own.  In fact, it's easy for that to happen.

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Offline Lusche

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Re: How have we lost so many people to this wonderful game?
« Reply #131 on: December 18, 2019, 12:31:38 PM »
It's entirely possible for you to wind up in a nearly unwinnable situation through no fault of your own. 


Many games like that out there. Eve Online or Elite:Dangerous come to my mind immediately, where anyone (but unexperienced players in particular) can easily get clobbered without even knowing what happened to them. Gatecamps, gankings of hekpless exploration ships, scams, blob roams...
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Offline Wiley

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Re: How have we lost so many people to this wonderful game?
« Reply #132 on: December 18, 2019, 12:38:58 PM »

Many games like that out there. Eve Online or Elite:Dangerous come to my mind immediately, where anyone (but unexperienced players in particular) can easily get clobbered without even knowing what happened to them. Gatecamps, gankings of hekpless exploration ships, scams, blob roams...

Yeah, but there's also in addition to the PVP massive amounts of content that don't require you to interact with players.

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Offline DmonSlyr

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Re: How have we lost so many people to this wonderful game?
« Reply #133 on: December 18, 2019, 12:41:22 PM »
Because, genius, unless they're something more than fodder for the vets, none of them are going to stick around.

Generally every game is like that. Every game makes you work your way toward better stuff. It's the psychology about it. It keeps Those players trying for better stuff.  Those players aren't going to have any more of a chance in P51Ds. If they are choosing to play for free, they should be cannon fodder for the paying subscribers. It would make the fights bigger and better overall. The whole key to letting them play for free is to allow them to play longer and stay in the MA, not to allow them to take advantage of players with their free hour. If a returning vet comes in and only plays for an hour. they could tear up the arena with their late war plane and get all they need out of that hour. It would give them no reason to subscribe again. Make them only play in spit5s, then they could still play, but it would create the urge to subscribe in order to fly their fav plane again.   
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Offline CptTrips

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Re: How have we lost so many people to this wonderful game?
« Reply #134 on: December 18, 2019, 12:42:07 PM »

Many games like that out there. Eve Online or Elite:Dangerous come to my mind immediately, where anyone (but unexperienced players in particular) can easily get clobbered without even knowing what happened to them. Gatecamps, gankings of hekpless exploration ships, scams, blob roams...


Exactly.  I don't buy that argument.

In BF they typically start you out with a decent gun.  Not the best, but decent.  You grind and rank up and unlock better weapons over time.  Does it suck to turn the corner and have your face melted off by an enemy gun whose rate of fire you don't come close to?  Yes.  It makes you really want to rank up to level 10 so you can go get one.

At least 20 times an hour in BF I find myself in unwinnable situations that weren't really my fault.  Like being spawned in front of a camper that mows me down before I even know where I am.  Or being stuck on a team of drooling Little Jimmy's that couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag with a machete.  War is Hell.

The real difference?  There is lower cost to the suck.  I can get back in action with a minute or two and forget about it, instead of facing another 20 min flight on auto-pilot between fleeting moments of fun.

Potential customers are having their expectations set by games like that before they try Aces High.


:salute
 

 

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