Atlas 3591; 767 crash; interim NTSB report is out.

[saggs]

Didn't hear much about it with the 737 Max taking up all the aviation headlines.  But the NTSB has released their interim report on the Atlas/Amazon 767 crash in Texas back in the spring.

Report:  https://dms.ntsb.gov/pubdms/search/hitlist.cfm?docketID=63168&CFID=3041421&CFTOKEN=9eb7f19d5413e33d-334C8CF1-0FB6-0B0B-EFEC7294646BA690

CVR transcript:  https://dms.ntsb.gov/public/63000-63499/63168/631200.pdf

Short version: In an expedited descent to 3K, with speedbrake on and flaps 1 notch, somebody (likely F.O. who was flying at the time, and probably had a hand on the speedbrake/spoiler lever) inadvertently hit the TOGA switch (which is armed with 1 notch flaps).  Airplane initiates go around power, with no visual reference in IMC the F.O. mistakes the sudden acceleration for a stall and pushes the nose down hard enough to split the yokes/elevators overpowering the autopilot.  Plane comes out of the clouds at 3,500ft with the engines at go around power and the F.O. pushing the nose down.  By the time the captain realizes what's going on it's to late to recover.  When they impacted the ground the autopilot and autothrottles were still engaged, it seems that they never noticed the TOGA switch was engaged, and never hit the autopilot and autothrottle disconnects.

Crew background reports on the F.O. are scary, multiple failed check rides, bounced around from one carrier to another.  The CVR transcript is also sketchy even before the accident sequence, lots of confusion and nervous chatter on routing and approach fixes and programing the FMS.

Anyway, figured some here might be interested.

[Vraciu]

If the reports on the F/O are true he had no business in that cockpit.   The guy was completely inept.    Very unfortunate.

Add this to the list of things Embraer does better than Boeing.  To split the controls in the EMB requires the crew to pull a lever in the cockpit.  It can't be done inadvertently in a situation like this.   I believe the Citation X is the same was as the EMB.

I have a lot of friends at Atlas and they love it.   One guy I flew with likes it another I flew with hated it.  The latter went back to flying the Lineage in the M.E. after being at Atlas long enough to decide it was not his cup of tea.   That place does have some problems but hopefully they'll be able to sort it all out.

[Puma44]

Sad that company background checks didn’t reveal what the NTSB found about the FO.

[Busher]

Sad that company background checks didn’t reveal what the NTSB found about the FO.

Previous employers can be subject to huge legal liability suits if they reveal competency issues. It might be time for the FAA to be the "clearing house" for all written training and check ride reports. No competent pilot is ever going to take issue with the fact that his ability to do a good job is public information.

[FLS]

Another crash caused by Boeing designing aircraft requiring competent pilots.

[Puma44]

Previous employers can be subject to huge legal liability suits if they reveal competency issues. It might be time for the FAA to be the "clearing house" for all written training and check ride reports. No competent pilot is ever going to take issue with the fact that his ability to do a good job is public information.

That’s truly a sad star of affairs.  Similar to the Buffalo accident.

[Vraciu]

That’s truly a sad star of affairs.  Similar to the Buffalo accident.

All the crazy stuff they passed after the Colgan crash was supposed to fix this.   As predicted, it didn't. 

[Puma44]

That’s truly a sad state of affairs.  Similar to the Buffalo accident.

[bustr]

My father was a commercial pilot in Maryland and he was required by the FAA to do regular check rides with an FAA officer to verify his ability to pilot the various aircraft he was cleared for. I did a ride along and watched him fail his yearly for a small infraction related to, everyone in the industry knew on that type what would happen next at a given point below a certain alt. The FAA officer didn't care he wanted all steps followed by the book.

So is this no longer the case for commercial pilots in the US? Granted what happened to my father was in the late 80's and it was only a King Air for a charter and cargo service out of BWI.

[Vraciu]

All the crazy stuff they passed after the Colgan crash was supposed to fix this.   As predicted, it didn't.

[Vraciu]

My father was a commercial pilot in Maryland and he was required by the FAA to do regular check rides with an FAA officer to verify his ability to pilot the various aircraft he was cleared for. I did a ride along and watched him fail his yearly for a small infraction related to, everyone in the industry knew on that type what would happen next at a given point below a certain alt. The FAA officer didn't care he wanted all steps followed by the book.

So is this no longer the case for commercial pilots in the US? Granted what happened to my father was in the late 80's and it was only a King Air for a charter and cargo service out of BWI.

This is a deep-dive discussion.   The short answer: It depends.

[guncrasher]

This is a deep-dive discussion.   The short answer: It depends.

depends if he crashed or not?

semp

[Vraciu]

depends if he crashed or not?

semp

The way people leave after a poor showing in training.    It depends.   If you haven't busted a ride yet you can quit.   Once you bust a ride that usually is reportable.     But busting a ride isn't necessarily the end of the world.    99% of people bust at least once even if it's just a Private Pilot checkride.    The problem arises when it becomes a pattern like this guy had. 

[Busher]

My father was a commercial pilot in Maryland and he was required by the FAA to do regular check rides with an FAA officer to verify his ability to pilot the various aircraft he was cleared for. I did a ride along and watched him fail his yearly for a small infraction related to, everyone in the industry knew on that type what would happen next at a given point below a certain alt. The FAA officer didn't care he wanted all steps followed by the book.

So is this no longer the case for commercial pilots in the US? Granted what happened to my father was in the late 80's and it was only a King Air for a charter and cargo service out of BWI.

I would add the fact that very few checkrides are done by the FAA. Most Airlines use DFTE's (Designated Flight Test Examiners) usually called Check Pilots. I was one.
In the 1980's 5000 hours flying time bought you nothing so failing a candidate put no pressure on the Operator - there were lots more applicants begging for a good flying job.
Now the pilot shortage has reared its very ugly head - the answer - keep training the candidate until he can (cough) pass. They need "meat in the seat".

[TyFoo]

99% of people bust at least once even if it's just a Private Pilot checkride.

That seems excessive?. . . lol I know people older and more experienced as well as younger and less experienced than I, that have not (to date) failed a "Check ride". However, I also know people that have (without exaggeration) flunked every single check ride they have ever taken, one person in particular more than once for each rating, and is flying "professionally" today.