Arcade Game or WWII Simulation?

[fuzeman]

Thanks for the reply.

Auto takeoff and auto combat trim are not related to eyesight. I believe that non-newbies should know how and do their own take-offs. Should we also have auto-landing?  Some of these crates are trickier to take-off. I like that AH is modeling that correctly. Btw, and this is big, I have measured the time-to altitude using manual and auto takeoff. Auto is a lot quicker/higher on the few planes I tried. Try it yourself on a 109K4.
<SNIP>
Regarding the suicide runs to take out hangars. I would not want to punish the player for doing that. But as it is the hangar owning team gets punished by a no-brainer no-skill action. If the attacker has the skill to take out a hangar without immediately killing himself then the hangar is down for the fully allotted time. But a no-skill hangar kill would mean the hangar is back up more quickly. I think that makes sense and would not be hard to implement. And hopefully result in guys learning how to properly drop bombs and fire rockets while staying alive.

Thanks again for your thoughtful reply.

Time to altitude. That can vary so much with fuel load, ordinance carried, wind {if any present} and how to you get THE BEST ROC or Time-to-alt with that many variables? You can always use the .speed XXX command to vary that to your taste or takeoff loadout; if you want to experiment or do the math to figure out what that optomal rate would be. I know our B-17 takes off slow as it uses an incorrect 2 point takeoff { at least according to Arthur Kennedy } and it definitely gets off the ground quicker using a three point takeoff.
"No-Skill" hanger kills - What about bombers killing hangers? Some might say that's close to a "no-skill hanger kill" in Aces High with the often called 'easy-mode' bomb-sight aiming.

Thanks for your reply.
<SNIP>  One should know how to trim a plane, IMO.<SNIP>
<SNIP> But I'll bet a dollar's worth of donuts that far too many have exactly that intent (take one for the team). 
<SNIP>
Thanks.

Risking the edge of lock territory and don't want to go there of course, but you could say that first part to many of today's airline pilots. but guess what   
And the second snip.... heck that's only 1 donut   

[FLS]

Just tested a K4 flown manually against auto take off.  The auto pilot aircraft had about 740 yards lead when I rolled and by 28,000 ft I had closed to 300 yards. Same fuel and load.

That's close enough to say no significant performance difference but a slight edge to manual flight.

[guncrasher]

Flying Aids -- Combat Trim Auto takeoff etc.…. 

IRACING has a number of driving AIDS they all come with some form of penalty for using them, usually in the form of speed.

 Suicide Runs

The unlimited supply of aircraft and tanks AcesHigh has always made it feel more like an arcade game then a simulation. And has led to behaviors that are not “routinely” seen on the battlefield…. suicide runs… going head-to-head with Cannon armed aircraft… bombing and bailing. To name a few.
But if we fix a certain number of aircraft (points?) to each side….. this will probably just lead to more bad behaviors by some of our more immature players.
But if we throw out the current perk points system that is nearly useless anyway… and rebuild it around the player.


1.   At the start of each monthly Tour of Duty the player is given XXXX numbers of we will call it , equipment points, to fight the Tour of Duty.
2.   All aircraft and tanks are given a cost much like the perk system now. With the exception of supply and Troop-carrying vehicles, they stay free to use…. You will see why in a min.
3.   You gain points by Landing kills and or damage points… you don’t make it home, your out of luck. Also, points are awarded to for your side for capturing enemy bases, you get a bonus if you're part of a mission that captured of base. And there's always winning the map.
4.   Loss of points… You did not return to base; you lose the cost of your aircraft. Maybe we can do a partial loss if you ditch on the base. Your side loses a base or an aircraft carrier to enemy action. Loss of Points……… Anytime the map changes and you're not the victors. Loss of Points.
5.   You're having a really bad week and you're getting low on equipment points… Welcome to Transportation Corp… troop and Supply vehicles are free and a way to replenish equipment Point losses.
6.   Side balancing---- Like the eny system in place now this can be used in side balancing. If your side currently has the highest population, your Ssss.. Stuff is going to cost more, but you still get to fly your P-51,  you just have to pay out the nose for it. Your side's outnumbered now you get to fly your crap on the cheap side.

CAVALRY

and the last week of the month you find yourself alone.   this is one of the worst ideas i ever heard.


semp

[pembquist]

and the last week of the month you find yourself alone.   this is one of the worst ideas i ever heard.


semp

I don't think it is that bad an idea, it is just that it is a different game entirely. Sort of like one life special events. Doesn't make sense for an ongoing basis though as it bears no relation to how often a player plays, no big deal for somebody who is on 3 nights a month PITA for someone on 15.

[dbh]

Just tested a K4 flown manually against auto take off.  The auto pilot aircraft had about 740 yards lead when I rolled and by 28,000 ft I had closed to 300 yards. Same fuel and load.

That's close enough to say no significant performance difference but a slight edge to manual flight.

I just repeated my tests. A climb to 2000' is more realistic when having to scramble to meet incoming fighters. Here are the precise conditions used and results I got:

109K4
50% fuel load, no drop tank
standard 30mm/12mm armament load

Offline practice area, unmodified
launch direction NE
throttle initially closed
start timer when throttle goes full open
turn WEP on asap

Auto Takeoff (3 runs), time to 2000'
48 sec
46 sec
47 sec

Manual Takeoff (3 runs), time to 2000'
57 sec
58 sec
58 sec
elevator trim set to full down, adjustment made while rolling (auto takeoff does this instantly and automatically)
liftoff at 125 IAS (try to match what auto takeoff does)
climb at 135-140 IAS (try to match what auto takeoff does)

The best I could do manually was 9 seconds slower than auto, about 20% longer in time, to 2000'.  I call that huge.
Btw, you noticed about a 740 yard lead on rollout using auto takeoff, right? I see about the same.

Knowing the above I will only use auto takeoff, especially when needing to scramble a fighter in a hurry.

[popeye]

7.  After bomb-and-bail I'd say 'suicide attack' is the most arcadish aspect of the game.  My idea of a reasonable solution:  if the pilot dies within 3 seconds of destroying an object, the downtime for the object is set to 5 minutes.  Doesn't matter if it was intentional.  Doesn't matter if death is by auger, ack, or enemy fire.  Surviving for 3 seconds would just be a necessary "skill" like flying and aiming.  5 minutes downtime would still make it possible to kill the last ack or building for base capture, or send a fleet back to port.  It just wouldn't reward the "last act of defiance" by a smoking spitfire quite as much as the current system.

[dbh]

7.  After bomb-and-bail I'd say 'suicide attack' is the most arcadish aspect of the game.  My idea of a reasonable solution:  if the pilot dies within 3 seconds of destroying an object, the downtime for the object is set to 5 minutes.  Doesn't matter if it was intentional.  Doesn't matter if death is by auger, ack, or enemy fire.  Surviving for 3 seconds would just be a necessary "skill" like flying and aiming.  5 minutes downtime would still make it possible to kill the last ack or building for base capture, or send a fleet back to port.  It just wouldn't reward the "last act of defiance" by a smoking spitfire quite as much as the current system.

I agree completely with your idea.   

[edge12674]

You can read and apply the tactics from Robert Shaw's book "Fighter Combat" to AH and they work. This elevates the game into the "simulation" category for me.

[Shuffler]

7.  After bomb-and-bail I'd say 'suicide attack' is the most arcadish aspect of the game.  My idea of a reasonable solution:  if the pilot dies within 3 seconds of destroying an object, the downtime for the object is set to 5 minutes.  Doesn't matter if it was intentional.  Doesn't matter if death is by auger, ack, or enemy fire.  Surviving for 3 seconds would just be a necessary "skill" like flying and aiming.  5 minutes downtime would still make it possible to kill the last ack or building for base capture, or send a fleet back to port.  It just wouldn't reward the "last act of defiance" by a smoking spitfire quite as much as the current system.

I have seen a bomber succumb to flak after a drop. He was not doing a suicide attack. Same with someone being hit by an 88.

[Arlo]

This thread falls into the 'fix the game to fix the people' category that so many have done before it. There's been very few instances (ie: kill shooter) where that proved necessary without threatening the game, itself.

[The Fugitive]

I have seen a bomber succumb to flak after a drop. He was not doing a suicide attack. Same with someone being hit by an 88.

....and yet I can fly at 8k in a set of B24s through the ack of a CV by maneuvering a bit and not take any damage. Its called skill.   

[FLS]

...
Btw, you noticed about a 740 yard lead on rollout using auto takeoff, right? I see about the same.

...

The 740 yards lead was because I was unable to start at the same time.

Climbing at 140 IAS is too slow. You'll do better at 168.

[Arlo]

Quote from: Shuffler on Today at 08:42:37
I have seen a bomber succumb to flak after a drop. He was not doing a suicide attack. Same with someone being hit by an 88.
_____________________________ _____________________________ _____________________________ ________________

....and yet I can fly at 8k in a set of B24s through the ack of a CV by maneuvering a bit and not take any damage. Its called skill.   

Kudos to you yet point missed. As long as players can die from ack without any kamikaze attack attempt, what-so-ever, then penalizing them for dying within even a second after the hanger falls/ship sinks is a broken 'solution.'

[Drano]

Pro tip. Combat trim is great for when you're just flying from here to there. Keeping it enabled while maneuvering and changing speeds puts you at a marked disadvantage vs someone using manual trim. Especially with elevator trim. Two reasons. Firstly it doesn't react fast enough to speed changes. Otherwise once it does, when very slow it tends to correct nose high and when very fast nose low. So it's a help but it's not perfect. It's also about useless if you have damaged control surfaces and are trying to get home. It's kinda wonky then. Manual trim is indispensable there. As a guy that regularly loses parts I know!

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

[dbh]

You can read and apply the tactics from Robert Shaw's book "Fighter Combat" to AH and they work. This elevates the game into the "simulation" category for me.

Thanks. I have read Johan Kyle's "In Pursuit" and it helped me a lot. I think it is a testament to the accuracy and quality of the Aces High flight simulator that these real world flight combat tactics translate so well. Did I mention that I love Aces High?

Also, as a Private Pilot with a lot of hours in small aircraft I constantly marvel at the realism of the flight behavior of the various aircraft in AH.