Arcade Game or WWII Simulation?

[The Fugitive]

Kudos to you yet point missed. As long as players can die from ack without any kamikaze attack attempt, what-so-ever, then penalizing them for dying within even a second after their drop is a broken 'solution.'

No, the point is if you do not maneuver and do all you can to avoid dying for the unbelievably long 3 SECONDS then the down time is only 5 minutes.

The whole point is to get players to work at getting the target but putting themselves into a position to be able to survive the run. If your caught by a fighter or ack gets you in that 3 second window you didnt plan your run, due to lack of skill, or because you are giving that last ditch effort of suiciding for the target and so the penalty. 

[popeye]

Kudos to you yet point missed. As long as players can die from ack without any kamikaze attack attempt, what-so-ever, then penalizing them for dying within even a second after the hanger falls/ship sinks is a broken 'solution.'

As you mentioned, killshooter was implemented to prevent players from deliberately attacking friendlies, yet it still penalizes players who accidentally shoot a friendly.  The solution is deemed to be worth the penalty.

I'd guess that deliberate kamikaze attacks outnumber last-second ack deaths by 1000's, and most last-second ack deaths are the result of a deliberate disregard for the ack danger.

[Arlo]

No, the point is if you do not maneuver and do all you can to avoid dying for the unbelievably long 3 SECONDS then the down time is only 5 minutes.

That actually ignores the point Shuf made and doesn't effectively counter it. Broken 'solution.'

[Arlo]

I'd guess that deliberate kamikaze attacks outnumber last-second ack deaths by 1000's, and most last-second ack deaths are the result of a deliberate disregard for the ack danger.

Really? You don't find your ack death claim a bit over the top?

Killshooter wasn't the slippery slope this is. Dying in the ack isn't a deliberate act of griefing. If Dale was forced to 'code out' every little pet peeve without thought for unintended consequence then the game wouldn't have lasted the 20 years it has.

[FLS]

Thanks. I have read Johan Kyle's "In Pursuit" and it helped me a lot. I think it is a testament to the accuracy and quality of the Aces High flight simulator that these real world flight combat tactics translate so well. Did I mention that I love Aces High?

Also, as a Private Pilot with a lot of hours in small aircraft I constantly marvel at the realism of the flight behavior of the various aircraft in AH.   

A good tactic for a taking off with nearby threats is climbing in your maneuvering speed range instead of climb speed range.

[Drano]

Yeah I think one of the things in the fighter tactics book was maintaining verticle maneuvering speed as a minimum in a combat area. Options man. Don't take all of them away from yourself. Bad enough the other guy is trying to do that to ya!

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

[CAV]

and the last week of the month you find yourself alone.   this is one of the worst ideas i ever heard.

My idea left Avenues for players to acquire more equipment points during the Tour of Duty. Also Mr. Hi-Tech being reasonably a smart fellow could use it as a source of revenue for the game. Having a bad Tour of Duty, running a little low on equipment points, don't want to do resupply runs.... have a in-game option to purchase more and help keep AH alive.

Beside with the current Arena populations were damn near flying alone anyway. AH will never win battle over who has the best Arcade game with War Thunder... They have already won.
My opinion and my opinion alone, is the only hope for the future of Aces High is to become a very good combat simulation pulling players from Arcade type games who are looking for something a with little more realism.

CAVALRY

[Shuffler]

No, the point is if you do not maneuver and do all you can to avoid dying for the unbelievably long 3 SECONDS then the down time is only 5 minutes.

The whole point is to get players to work at getting the target but putting themselves into a position to be able to survive the run. If your caught by a fighter or ack gets you in that 3 second window you didnt plan your run, due to lack of skill, or because you are giving that last ditch effort of suiciding for the target and so the penalty.

You may try to change history. Heavy bombers did not "maneuver" when on a bombing run.

[popeye]

You may try to change history. Heavy bombers did not "maneuver" when on a bombing run.

And they didn't attack at tree-top level, destroy the target, die in ack, and respawn 5 seconds later to do it again.   

[Arlo]

And they didn't attack at tree-top level, destroy the target, die in ack, and respawn 5 seconds later to do it again.   

And it took longer than 5 minutes (or even the standard in game time) to repair destroyed stuff. 

[Wiley]

7.  After bomb-and-bail I'd say 'suicide attack' is the most arcadish aspect of the game.  My idea of a reasonable solution:  if the pilot dies within 3 seconds of destroying an object, the downtime for the object is set to 5 minutes.  Doesn't matter if it was intentional.  Doesn't matter if death is by auger, ack, or enemy fire.  Surviving for 3 seconds would just be a necessary "skill" like flying and aiming.  5 minutes downtime would still make it possible to kill the last ack or building for base capture, or send a fleet back to port.  It just wouldn't reward the "last act of defiance" by a smoking spitfire quite as much as the current system.

...And when he augers after 4 seconds?  Then 5?  Then any time less than it takes to RTB safely?

Wiley.

[Ramesis]

Thanks for the reply.

Auto takeoff and auto combat trim are not related to eyesight. I believe that non-newbies should know how and do their own take-offs. Should we also have auto-landing?  Some of these crates are trickier to take-off. I like that AH is modeling that correctly. Btw, and this is big, I have measured the time-to altitude using manual and auto takeoff. Auto is a lot quicker/higher on the few planes I tried. Try it yourself on a 109K4.


I use auto as a matter of convenience... With the exception of the B-29, I can manually lift any aircraft
 

[Brooke]

dbh, come join us in Scenarios.  Those are special events designed to give a more-realistic battle experience.

The next one will be sometime around April (not sure exact time yet).

[TequilaChaser]

Just tested a K4 flown manually against auto take off.  The auto pilot aircraft had about 740 yards lead when I rolled and by 28,000 ft I had closed to 300 yards. Same fuel and load.

That's close enough to say no significant performance difference but a slight edge to manual flight.

I just repeated my tests. A climb to 2000' is more realistic when having to scramble to meet incoming fighters. Here are the precise conditions used and results I got:

109K4
50% fuel load, no drop tank
standard 30mm/12mm armament load

Offline practice area, unmodified
launch direction NE
throttle initially closed
start timer when throttle goes full open
turn WEP on asap

Auto Takeoff (3 runs), time to 2000'
48 sec
46 sec
47 sec

Manual Takeoff (3 runs), time to 2000'
57 sec
58 sec
58 sec
elevator trim set to full down, adjustment made while rolling (auto takeoff does this instantly and automatically)
liftoff at 125 IAS (try to match what auto takeoff does)
climb at 135-140 IAS (try to match what auto takeoff does)

The best I could do manually was 9 seconds slower than auto, about 20% longer in time, to 2000'.  I call that huge.
Btw, you noticed about a 740 yard lead on rollout using auto takeoff, right? I see about the same.

Knowing the above I will only use auto takeoff, especially when needing to scramble a fighter in a hurry.

You need more practice and you should not being trying to copy exactly how auto-takeoff works/does it

The 740 yards lead was because I was unable to start at the same time.

Climbing at 140 IAS is too slow. You'll do better at 168.

Agreed

Pro tip. Combat trim is great for when you're just flying from here to there. Keeping it enabled while maneuvering and changing speeds puts you at a marked disadvantage vs someone using manual trim. Especially with elevator trim. Two reasons. Firstly it doesn't react fast enough to speed changes. Otherwise once it does, when very slow it tends to correct nose high and when very fast nose low. So it's a help but it's not perfect. It's also about useless if you have damaged control surfaces and are trying to get home. It's kinda wonky then. Manual trim is indispensable there. As a guy that regularly loses parts I know!

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

I second this!

A good tactic for a taking off with nearby threats is climbing in your maneuvering speed range instead of climb speed range.

True....and I'll leave my opinions regarding "In Pursuit" out of this....feel free to search for them in the "Help & Training" forum if you want to read them...roughly 14 to 17 years ago...

Yeah I think one of the things in the fighter tactics book was maintaining verticle maneuvering speed as a minimum in a combat area. Options man. Don't take all of them away from yourself. Bad enough the other guy is trying to do that to ya!

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

If you ever find the time, you should return to the AH Training Corps, LOL...seriously though

As soon as you roll on take-off you can hit combat trim and get the same effect as auto take-off....especially rolling from a capped field it is ill advised to use auto take-off... You will need to have options/speed to jink / evade vulching threats which is much easier to accomplish if not using auto take-off....

"Fight like you train, Train like you fight"

Edit: let me add that those tests y'all were doing in the 109K4's....using manual take-off and soon as wheels up go level and build speed quickly over 250 IAS, you can trim off 5 to 10 seconds verses the auto take-off method to 2,000 ft angels and be around 3k angels or higher...... Just an FYI

Good luck and hope this helps

TC

[Chalenge]

IRACING has a number of driving AIDS they all come with some form of penalty for using them, usually in the form of speed.

iRacing also has a safety rating. How would you feel about everyone protesting the way you fly and that affecting your game time? No comparison.