Author Topic: Give us some input!  (Read 191 times)

Offline Nefarious

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Give us some input!
« on: February 03, 2020, 09:35:11 PM »
We've been here before with Fortress Europe. This time, we have a feature that will always allow us to have bombers in a super tight formation.

We also have the ability to add pilots to the bombers in flight... which allows bomber pilots to continue the mission, something they rarely get to do.

What do we need to make it work all the time, or at least a majority of the time? ;)

The biggest issue is time. Missions will be long. While deep missions will likely use the A6 Airspawns as a starting location, this still will make deep missions 3 hours or more.

What's the best way to handle flight?

Frame 1 was 60 minutes. Frame 2 was 30 minutes, although I stretched it out to 40, then reopened it again when the Luftwaffe was down to 4 pilots.

What works here? What about disabling the Luftwaffe Air spawns, and allowing them to launch from the ground at a certain time?
There must also be a flyable computer available for Nefarious to do FSO. So he doesn't keep talking about it for eight and a half hours on Friday night!

Offline akbmzawy

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Re: Give us some input!
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2020, 07:03:05 PM »
Just thinking that as in all raids the defenders had to scramble after a notification of intrusion. With Fuel multiplier set at 1.0 would this be more challenging to launch off a field instead of air launch? As one of the Axis pilots said they did know the route.

As a dedicated bomber pilot the concept of the AIs are a welcome thrill.

Offline pembquist

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Re: Give us some input!
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2020, 11:19:49 PM »
It would be nice if it were possible to only have enemy icons on. For me flying a bomber the number of green text blobs is a little overwhelming. It might be cheaty but the enemy icons do help sort out what is going on, there are a lot of things in the sky.
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Offline CptTrips

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Re: Give us some input!
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2020, 11:28:25 PM »
It would be nice if it were possible to only have enemy icons on. For me flying a bomber the number of green text blobs is a little overwhelming. It might be cheaty but the enemy icons do help sort out what is going on, there are a lot of things in the sky.

Yeah.  I had thought the same thing.  You should pop that onto the wishlist.

 :salute
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Offline Nefarious

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Re: Give us some input!
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2020, 07:38:35 AM »
Just thinking that as in all raids the defenders had to scramble after a notification of intrusion. With Fuel multiplier set at 1.0 would this be more challenging to launch off a field instead of air launch? As one of the Axis pilots said they did know the route.

As a dedicated bomber pilot the concept of the AIs are a welcome thrill.

I think in the next mission we will be trying something similar to this...

Perhaps Air Start at T+0, Disabled at T+15, then Ground Launch available till T+60. Or something similar.
There must also be a flyable computer available for Nefarious to do FSO. So he doesn't keep talking about it for eight and a half hours on Friday night!

Offline Rocco

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Re: Give us some input!
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2020, 08:49:53 AM »
I think in the next mission we will be trying something similar to this...

Perhaps Air Start at T+0, Disabled at T+15, then Ground Launch available till T+60. Or something similar.

I had a good time, it was great being part of a huge bomber formation. Great job!

A thought on the axis launch, perhaps reverse what you have? Start with ground launch to represent a scramble, they'll have time to get to alt at the beginning. Then open an air spawn a sector or two back as the bombers get close to target to represent existing patrols being vectored to the formation. It would keep the axis in the action and having the air spawn further away would still give the bombers a fighting chance.

+1 on the enemy only icons. Had the same thought during the mission.
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Offline Spikes

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Re: Give us some input!
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2020, 08:58:01 AM »
I had a good time, it was great being part of a huge bomber formation. Great job!

A thought on the axis launch, perhaps reverse what you have? Start with ground launch to represent a scramble, they'll have time to get to alt at the beginning. Then open an air spawn a sector or two back as the bombers get close to target to represent existing patrols being vectored to the formation. It would keep the axis in the action and having the air spawn further away would still give the bombers a fighting chance.

+1 on the enemy only icons. Had the same thought during the mission.
+1 for the reverse. In FSO this is how we handle 8th AF missions. Axis fighters are designed to get to alt quickly so there is generally no issue being at 25-30K in under 20 minutes. It is just important that the Axis would be able to make enemy contact at least a sector out from target.

From there, the Axis can have an airspawn available to 'chase' them out. Just have to make sure that airspawn isn't in the direct ingress or egress path of bombers.
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Offline CptTrips

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Re: Give us some input!
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2020, 10:00:36 AM »
A thought on the axis launch, perhaps reverse what you have? Start with ground launch to represent a scramble, they'll have time to get to alt at the beginning. Then open an air spawn a sector or two back as the bombers get close to target to represent existing patrols being vectored to the formation. It would keep the axis in the action and having the air spawn further away would still give the bombers a fighting chance.

+1
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Offline AKKuya

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Re: Give us some input!
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2020, 12:35:37 PM »
Historically, how was the Luftwaffe units based geographically during the 8th AF missions?

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Offline Spikes

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Re: Give us some input!
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2020, 12:45:58 PM »
Historically, how was the Luftwaffe units based geographically during the 8th AF missions?
Kind of a loaded question but mainly around big cities. Late in the war most were pretty close to Berlin as east and west was collapsing.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1y2daZBgk4E47eSRrxXLXTgYkXdL_YA87&usp=sharing

This map is a project I was working on, shows Luftwaffe airfields and if you click on an airfield, shows the name of airfield/city, what units were stationed there and when. Training airfields were not included if there was no history of units being stationed there.
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Offline Arlo

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Re: Give us some input!
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2020, 02:12:09 PM »
Kind of a loaded question but mainly around big cities. Late in the war most were pretty close to Berlin as east and west was collapsing.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1y2daZBgk4E47eSRrxXLXTgYkXdL_YA87&usp=sharing

This map is a project I was working on, shows Luftwaffe airfields and if you click on an airfield, shows the name of airfield/city, what units were stationed there and when. Training airfields were not included if there was no history of units being stationed there.

Impressive!  :salute :cheers:


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Offline AKKuya

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Re: Give us some input!
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2020, 03:23:56 PM »
Kind of a loaded question but mainly around big cities. Late in the war most were pretty close to Berlin as east and west was collapsing.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1y2daZBgk4E47eSRrxXLXTgYkXdL_YA87&usp=sharing

This map is a project I was working on, shows Luftwaffe airfields and if you click on an airfield, shows the name of airfield/city, what units were stationed there and when. Training airfields were not included if there was no history of units being stationed there.

Cool.
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Offline CptTrips

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Re: Give us some input!
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2020, 03:31:21 PM »
Kind of a loaded question but mainly around big cities. Late in the war most were pretty close to Berlin as east and west was collapsing.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1y2daZBgk4E47eSRrxXLXTgYkXdL_YA87&usp=sharing

This map is a project I was working on, shows Luftwaffe airfields and if you click on an airfield, shows the name of airfield/city, what units were stationed there and when. Training airfields were not included if there was no history of units being stationed there.


Awesome.  But where are the BOB fields?!?!?!   :D

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Offline Nefarious

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Re: Give us some input!
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2020, 05:05:21 PM »
I had a good time, it was great being part of a huge bomber formation. Great job!

A thought on the axis launch, perhaps reverse what you have? Start with ground launch to represent a scramble, they'll have time to get to alt at the beginning. Then open an air spawn a sector or two back as the bombers get close to target to represent existing patrols being vectored to the formation. It would keep the axis in the action and having the air spawn further away would still give the bombers a fighting chance.

+1 on the enemy only icons. Had the same thought during the mission.

+1 for the reverse. In FSO this is how we handle 8th AF missions. Axis fighters are designed to get to alt quickly so there is generally no issue being at 25-30K in under 20 minutes. It is just important that the Axis would be able to make enemy contact at least a sector out from target.

From there, the Axis can have an airspawn available to 'chase' them out. Just have to make sure that airspawn isn't in the direct ingress or egress path of bombers.

The issue I see here, and maybe it isn't an issue because the Axis historically had the added defense bonus, is that A61 Spawns bracket the Ruhr Valley Targets. Which will probably be the most common targets in most AH events, Fortress Europe Included. Every target from Hamburg to Heidelburg is less than 50 miles from an A61 Spawn.

We do have another set of Air Spawns though, however the A106 Spawns are 100 Miles East of the A61 Spawns. So any spawn from A106 would be at least 20-30 minute flight back to the A61 spawn area. Because the AI bombers travel slower, it may be possible for the Luftwaffe to catch up, but it hasn't been tested.

Then you have the Allies whose furthest Air Spawn is A6, the A6 North Spawn is super close to Wilhelmshaven and Bremerhaven, as well as close to Bremen and Hamburg. But the rest of the A6 Spawns are about 100 miles from the Ruhr Targets.

So that's why I kind of like the ground start after a certain time, because that ensures there's no spawning near the formation, only ground takeoffs. In the old Fortress Europe write-up, I believe the idea was to have every Axis field enabled so the Luftwaffe could start somewhere and maybe lift at another location to catch the bombers on the return trip.
There must also be a flyable computer available for Nefarious to do FSO. So he doesn't keep talking about it for eight and a half hours on Friday night!