Author Topic: 3 Hour Side Switch Timer  (Read 15363 times)

Offline hitech

  • Administrator
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 12398
      • http://www.hitechcreations.com
Re: 3 Hour Side Switch Timer
« Reply #105 on: June 02, 2020, 03:49:01 PM »
Not that arena setup is too difficult, but it does require some work to be able to set something like that up on a whim. Also that person has to be online in order for the arena to be up. Not to mention it isn't on the 'front page' of the arena list so whoever the host is would have to advertise it quite a bit.

I think Match Play is a nice idea, but lacks the 'free for all' aspect that the DA lake brought. I'd be curious to see how a simple DA lake/fighter town map with 3 bases would do. I feel like it would be a bit more relaxed than match play and might give newer players a better opportunity to explore the game and flight model a bit more than 'instanced' fighting.

Just checking but you do realize there is a free for all area?

HiTech


Offline nrshida

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8594
Re: 3 Hour Side Switch Timer
« Reply #106 on: June 02, 2020, 04:12:42 PM »
There's such a tremendous amount of misassumption / lack of precision in this discussion it's hard to make headway.  :rofl



"If man were meant to fly, he'd have been given an MS Sidewinder"

Offline LCADolby

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7315
Re: 3 Hour Side Switch Timer
« Reply #107 on: June 02, 2020, 04:28:01 PM »
In order to be clear;

DA to return as a separate arena that is not free, while keeping the Match-play stays as it is for reasons previously stated.

I'm done here.  :salute
JG5 "Eismeer"
YouTube+Twitch - 20Dolby10


"BE a man and shoot me in the back" - pez

Offline DmonSlyr

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6669
Re: 3 Hour Side Switch Timer
« Reply #108 on: June 02, 2020, 04:47:54 PM »
The simple the better when it comes to these arenas.

All one team

3k Air spawns over land... lets see that pretty terrain.

3 bases outside the sector to land if you want.

The issue is that it's very hard to recruit players already in the MA to go to a custom arena.

A custom arena would have to be up most of the day, and be properly named: Free For All. For people to start joining.

The map has to be small and easy. Big maps making it harder to locate were the free fight is. A small easy map shows players the only place to fight. Very similar to Axis V Alies MNM. Of course I am not able to play on Monday..

I think a free for all similar to Monday night madness would be cool, though it needs air spawns with one team (in this example.).

Why only one one team? This avoids 3 players not being able to fight each other at the same time. Odd #s create gangs, and not being able to fight someone on your team makes the fights slower. Everyone should be able to fight everyone. That makes the fights much more balanced.

The Damned(est. 1988)
-=Army of Muppets=-
2014 & 2018 KoTH ToC Champion

Offline Spikes

  • Aces High CM Staff
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15724
    • Twitch: Twitch Feed
Re: 3 Hour Side Switch Timer
« Reply #109 on: June 02, 2020, 04:59:04 PM »
Just checking but you do realize there is a free for all area?

HiTech


I see the free for all option. I tried to spawn and it airspawned me to some location on the map with some AI (can't tell location because I can't zoom the map out). I assume the runway directions may spawn you in different locations? I haven't toyed with MP too much but even the free for all area seems to be quite a bit different than the DA lake (even if it was a cess-pool at times).
i7-12700k | Gigabyte Z690 GAMING X | 64GB G.Skill DDR4 | EVGA 1080ti FTW3 | H150i Capellix

FlyKommando.com

Offline nrshida

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8594
Re: 3 Hour Side Switch Timer
« Reply #110 on: June 03, 2020, 02:23:21 AM »

Just checking but you do realize there is a free for all area?

HiTech

HiTech, the Free For All (FFE) area presently available isn't anything remotely like the furball lake experientially. Not-the-least-of-which weirdness is that when you mix human and AI together the humans apparently tend to collaborate against the AI.

Referring back to your earlier point about population, at some stage and for a brief period of AH3 you did have the now FFE (it's PT Corner Spikes) air-spawnable with no AI. Spontaneously it was populated, players started a thread extolling its virtues, how fun it was, the quality of the flying and a good-quality YouTube video was immediately published. You know one of those free and independent promotionals which might make prospective players who were probably watching aviation-related videos to think: "Ooooh, I'd be good at that and would like to try it". Numbers and interest was sufficient to suggest that somewhere like that would probably be a populated arena for at least some of the 24-hour cycle. Besides what does it matter if it didn't / doesn't have high numbers, neither does the TA.

As CptTrips mentioned earlier:

Working out better user experiences and optimizing workflows...

Consider the disposition of the online arenas from the perspective of a new and unindoctrinated player. Due to the present architecture - to have human interaction, you're realistically thrown into the late-war MA of old. That's not to say the ACM is of an intimidating high-level, it's rather the nature of arena itself. It's populated by long-experienced players who are highly attuned to risk assessment, usually fly competitive aircraft in competitive ways, often have long-standing squadmates or wingmen who know exactly how to utilise the arena's facilities to minimise their risk and maximise their danger to an extent new players are incapable of doing or knowing. Your ACM has to be very good to fly (initially) alone and not get swarmed endlessly by vets competing with each other to add a kill to their score. Where can prospective players acquire this? The answer is nowhere in AH3.

There's a big gap between staying engaged / interested long enough to find it a survivable challenge to build enough skill to become a steady subscriber.

Certainly the question of free online combat versus paying for a valid service should be addressed. The old DA / Furball lake (with a proportion of population something like 10%/90% split respectively), was a paid arena and I think that's fair enough. The present MPA is a bit schitzo because a good proportion of new / prospective players go there, but they're hardly equipped to duel. They mill around the FFA fighting the AI which is neither representative nor encouraging. There is no help there, official or otherwise. Neither can you put the AI at a fixed level to satisfy both newcomers and experienced players. It is neither fish nor fowl. There is definately a place for the AI you have devised. I'm not sure that is it. Regardless it is for you to strike the business model balance between 'freeloaders' and 'gateway drug' to facilitate players becoming subscribers. None of us have useful data to help in that regard.

A separate ideation thread ought to be made for what an 'ideal' layout might be if you wanted to have that discussion. Some (but not all  :)) of Violator's suggestions have merit. We know that because we did some of those experiments already in private arenas. Of course that's all additional work. An economical first and easy experiment would be to either re-enable the fields at A1, A2 and A3 or as Dolby suggests reboot the old DA as it was, obviously announce the change, and see if a community of players could be recultivated who are not overly fixated with MA score and survival at all costs. That's only engaging to those who've already acquired ACM and AH experience.

Well that's my 50 cents and our lockdown is drawing to a close. Must get back to the potentially paying project work...  :)


"If man were meant to fly, he'd have been given an MS Sidewinder"

Offline CptTrips

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8269
Re: 3 Hour Side Switch Timer
« Reply #111 on: June 03, 2020, 09:33:07 AM »
HiTech, the Free For All (FFE) area presently available isn't anything remotely like the furball lake experientially. Not-the-least-of-which weirdness is that when you mix human and AI together the humans apparently tend to collaborate against the AI.

I think there should be a human only Furball Arena.
 
I think it should be it's own venue  for maximum discoverability. (Replace Steal the Sheep?")

I think a Furball arena provides a quick action fix for vets who might only have a few minutes to play, and for noobs, it's an arena that lowers the cost of dying because you can get back into action again quickly.  That speeds up the cycle time so a noob can learn faster and doesn't punish them for learning with another 20 min flight back to a fight in the MA.

Could you migrate the forcefield boundary from WO:P?

I agree it should be over gently rolling terrain for depth perception and the added interest of dodging trees.

I understand the concept of all one side, however that can be confusing to people as you've seen from WO:P FFA area.  If you did that, I would make the arena config no icons.  So they don't hesitate to shoot at a plane because it has a green icon. The fights would be in close enough proximity that you could get away with it and in that context any other plane you saw was by definition an enemy.  If no icons, does that mean no name tags also?  That would help with ganging and griefing someone.  In this configuration, you really only need one base that everyone spawns at for even more simplicity.  It simple has several air spawn launch buttons.

Going way out on a limb...one problem, like the MA, I see it quickly devolving into two or 3 used planes that are maximally optimal in that setup.  That's OK but gets stale, but what if every hour it switched plane sets available to spawn?  You could do this with a running Staged Mission (No AI) that uses the Dot Cmd events to load a rotating set of arena configs or script files at regular intervals that enables alternating sets of aircraft to be available. So I think you already have that capability built.  Rotate Early, Mid, Late War on an hourly basis.

$0.02.
Toxic, psychotic, self-aggrandizing drama queens simply aren't worth me spending my time on.

Offline Shuffler

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 27091
Re: 3 Hour Side Switch Timer
« Reply #112 on: June 03, 2020, 10:55:27 AM »
This is why MNM is such a hit. 4K alt limit and a valley to fight in. Kill shooter off with midwar planeset. For folks that just really want to go at it.

80th FS "Headhunters"

S.A.P.P.- Secret Association Of P-38 Pilots (Lightning In A Bottle)

Offline Arlo

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 24759
Re: 3 Hour Side Switch Timer
« Reply #113 on: June 03, 2020, 11:06:09 AM »
This is why MNM is such a hit. 4K alt limit and a valley to fight in. Kill shooter off with midwar planeset. For folks that just really want to go at it.

But it isn't free.


Offline perdue3

  • Aces High CM Staff
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4672
Re: 3 Hour Side Switch Timer
« Reply #114 on: June 03, 2020, 12:10:50 PM »
3 Hours Switch Timer!
C.O. Kommando Nowotny 

FlyKommando.com

 

Offline CptTrips

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8269
Re: 3 Hour Side Switch Timer
« Reply #115 on: June 03, 2020, 12:12:40 PM »
3 Hours Switch Timer!

Topic Nazi.  :cool:

Yeah, it should be split off to a new topic.


[Edit]  Split out Furball Arena discussion to: https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,400266.0.html

 :salute
« Last Edit: June 03, 2020, 12:18:03 PM by CptTrips »
Toxic, psychotic, self-aggrandizing drama queens simply aren't worth me spending my time on.

Offline Shuffler

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 27091
Re: 3 Hour Side Switch Timer
« Reply #116 on: June 03, 2020, 12:19:51 PM »
80th FS "Headhunters"

S.A.P.P.- Secret Association Of P-38 Pilots (Lightning In A Bottle)

Offline Mongoose

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1581
      • Kentwood Station
Re: 3 Hour Side Switch Timer
« Reply #117 on: June 03, 2020, 09:36:13 PM »
Custom arena?

Wiley.

Custom arena is definitely a good way to set up an arena just the way you want.  The only problem with custom arenas is getting the word out and getting people to join.
My Aces High fan site:
www.kentwoodstation.com

Offline TWCAxew

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1165
Re: 3 Hour Side Switch Timer
« Reply #118 on: June 04, 2020, 07:25:07 AM »
Custom arena is definitely a good way to set up an arena just the way you want.  The only problem with custom arenas is getting the word out and getting people to join.

Good point. We have the MPA discord server, it went up to 30~40 users and made the MPA server come to life..
https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,398782.20.html

But:

3 Hours Switch Timer!
« Last Edit: June 04, 2020, 07:32:16 AM by TWCAxew »
DutchVII / ULDutch
~~2019 KOTH/TOC Champion~~
https://ahevents.net/index.php/events/scenarios/about-scenarios
4 time scenario C.O. ~ As dew appears, As dew Vanishes, Such is my life, Everything in this world, Is but a dream within a dream.

Offline hitech

  • Administrator
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 12398
      • http://www.hitechcreations.com
Re: 3 Hour Side Switch Timer
« Reply #119 on: June 04, 2020, 10:10:48 AM »
From the players I had contact with that had more to do with the declining numbers at the end of AH2 and the knowledge that many of those players didn't have equipment at the time up to running AH3. Not the arena itself. It was quite well populated for a very long time.

Match Play is better for some things. A non-scoring playpen is sorely missed I think in the present disposition of AH's arenas.

AH3 Did not create any declining numbers. AH Numbers started shrinking in Feb of 2009. The dueling  arena used to be populated but ah3 had no effect on it. When the changes were made to match play, the dueling arena was completely empty. So why would I believe a return to a setup that was always empty not always be empty now?

HiTech