Author Topic: Aircraft engine restarts while in the air  (Read 763 times)

Offline avionix

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Re: Aircraft engine restarts while in the air
« Reply #30 on: June 08, 2020, 12:23:41 PM »
Flying a Cherokee about 20 years ago and missed the alert on my timer to switch fuel tanks. Engine quit in flight and prop kept windmilling. Switched tanks and she automatically went back to work.

Not proud of that little episode, but brought the whole Aviate, Navigate, Communicate to life for me. In one quick moment.
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Offline Shuffler

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Re: Aircraft engine restarts while in the air
« Reply #31 on: June 08, 2020, 04:26:55 PM »
It is nice to see someone do it in game though.  Shutting down their engine diminishes their potential maneuvering energy as an adversary and makes them more of a grape, an easier gunnery target.

My props counter rotate.  :D
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Offline FESS67

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Re: Aircraft engine restarts while in the air
« Reply #32 on: June 09, 2020, 12:29:14 AM »
Let those who need it do it. Last ditch effort to keep from being shot down. Not really a big deal.

I don't think you are understanding to usage of this feature.  It is in fact intended to allow the proponent of the technique to get his / her nose around and falling gracefully to earth faster and with more control than fighting the engine torque allows.  This means that rather than a last ditch effort at survival it is more likely to deliver a gun solution on the guy at the bottom end of the rope.

It is nice to see someone do it in game though.  Shutting down their engine diminishes their potential maneuvering energy as an adversary and makes them more of a grape, an easier gunnery target.

When I was playing it was a move utilized at the very edge of the energy curve and as stated above delivered a more controllable method to drop the nose and gain a gun solution.  I used it over the top in loops and in the recovery of specific stalls, in particular floating tail down or flat spins.  In these situations fighting the torque of the engine was detrimental to the achievement of the intended outcome.

Offline Shuffler

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Re: Aircraft engine restarts while in the air
« Reply #33 on: June 09, 2020, 02:08:26 AM »
I don't think you are understanding to usage of this feature.  It is in fact intended to allow the proponent of the technique to get his / her nose around and falling gracefully to earth faster and with more control than fighting the engine torque allows.  This means that rather than a last ditch effort at survival it is more likely to deliver a gun solution on the guy at the bottom end of the rope.

When I was playing it was a move utilized at the very edge of the energy curve and as stated above delivered a more controllable method to drop the nose and gain a gun solution.  I used it over the top in loops and in the recovery of specific stalls, in particular floating tail down or flat spins.  In these situations fighting the torque of the engine was detrimental to the achievement of the intended outcome.

No.... I completely understand.
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Online Puma44

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Re: Aircraft engine restarts while in the air
« Reply #34 on: June 09, 2020, 10:03:42 AM »
I don't think you are understanding to usage of this feature.  It is in fact intended to allow the proponent of the technique to get his / her nose around and falling gracefully to earth faster and with more control than fighting the engine torque allows.  This means that rather than a last ditch effort at survival it is more likely to deliver a gun solution on the guy at the bottom end of the rope.

When I was playing it was a move utilized at the very edge of the energy curve and as stated above delivered a more controllable method to drop the nose and gain a gun solution.  I used it over the top in loops and in the recovery of specific stalls, in particular floating tail down or flat spins.  In these situations fighting the torque of the engine was detrimental to the achievement of the intended outcome.

There are methods of accomplishing the same objective through use of flight controls, gear, and flaps.  The engine torque can also be use to enhance roll rate in combination with pitch.  Getting that slow and out of energy produces the same outcome; the grape target.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2020, 10:40:38 AM by Puma44 »



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Offline FESS67

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Re: Aircraft engine restarts while in the air
« Reply #35 on: June 09, 2020, 11:40:46 AM »
There are methods of accomplishing the same objective through use of flight controls, gear, and flaps.  The engine torque can also be use to enhance roll rate in combination with pitch[/]b.  Getting that slow and out of energy produces the same outcome; the grape target.

How about you put a P51 up into a vertical with your victim keenly following and rudder a turn over the top to the right.  See how the engine torque hinders you.  Of course you could turn the the left however if that is not the way you need to turn to put the enemy on the defensive then a turn to the right is what you need to do.  Hence, engine off.

Or, you could never get into that position in the first place.  You could stay fast and safe and bore the opponent to death.  Not enough of the first mentality and too much of the second mentality is a major reason why I and many other 'fighter types' no longer fly the game.


Online Puma44

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Re: Aircraft engine restarts while in the air
« Reply #36 on: June 09, 2020, 12:05:32 PM »
How about you put a P51 up into a vertical with your victim keenly following and rudder a turn over the top to the right.  See how the engine torque hinders you.  Of course you could turn the the left however if that is not the way you need to turn to put the enemy on the defensive then a turn to the right is what you need to do.  Hence, engine off.

Or, you could never get into that position in the first place.  You could stay fast and safe and bore the opponent to death.  Not enough of the first mentality and too much of the second mentality is a major reason why I and many other 'fighter types' no longer fly the game.



I’ve done so in the game with the Mustang and real world in Crazy Horse 2 at Stallion 51.  Putting one’s self in a real world combat situation requiring a right turn at slow/no speed would indicate a lack of experience/situational experience and energy management.  Shutting the engine off at that point would only increase the chances of getting killed or spending time as a POW. Of course, in game we can do anything and justify it any way we want to.  The cartoon world is relatively forgiving.

As is often said, “technique only”.  Most often the first one to make a mistake loses.  Then, it’s a matter of learning from the mistake and doing better the next time, or going quit playing and go home.  Again, technique only.  :salute
« Last Edit: June 09, 2020, 12:55:59 PM by Puma44 »



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Offline Palace Cobra

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Re: Aircraft engine restarts while in the air
« Reply #37 on: June 09, 2020, 05:37:31 PM »
I’ve done so in the game with the Mustang and real world in Crazy Horse 2 at Stallion 51.  Putting one’s self in a real world combat situation requiring a right turn at slow/no speed would indicate a lack of experience/situational experience and energy management.  Shutting the engine off at that point would only increase the chances of getting killed or spending time as a POW. Of course, in game we can do anything and justify it any way we want to.  The cartoon world is relatively forgiving.

As is often said, “technique only”.  Most often the first one to make a mistake loses.  Then, it’s a matter of learning from the mistake and doing better the next time, or going quit playing and go home.  Again, technique only.  :salute

You've done a vertical stall and a do-wha-diddy in everything since Wilbur Wright but cannot grasp the concept Fess is explaining. 

People mentioned in this thread have used the technique to devastating effect repeatedly and intentionally. I am quite sure there are plenty here who can show you how it works by repeatedly putting you in the tower.

By all means don't learn how to do it. Makes it that much easier to flame you.

 :salute


Offline Palace Cobra

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Re: Aircraft engine restarts while in the air
« Reply #38 on: June 09, 2020, 05:39:52 PM »
How about you put a P51 up into a vertical with your victim keenly following and rudder a turn over the top to the right.  See how the engine torque hinders you.  Of course you could turn the the left however if that is not the way you need to turn to put the enemy on the defensive then a turn to the right is what you need to do.  Hence, engine off.

Or, you could never get into that position in the first place.  You could stay fast and safe and bore the opponent to death.  Not enough of the first mentality and too much of the second mentality is a major reason why I and many other 'fighter types' no longer fly the game.

Oh, be quiet. The fighter pilot gods have determined that what you're saying is ineffective and doesn't make sense, even if you do it regularly. Torque doesn't exist you know.

Offline LCADolby

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Re: Aircraft engine restarts while in the air
« Reply #39 on: June 09, 2020, 05:45:21 PM »
What handle do you fly under Pcobra? Just curious.

Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: Aircraft engine restarts while in the air
« Reply #40 on: June 09, 2020, 07:04:55 PM »
When I see someone turn off their engine in the middle of a fight, I know I have a kill. If people want to believe this urban game legend, so be it, it just makes things easier for the other guy.
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Offline Oldman731

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Re: Aircraft engine restarts while in the air
« Reply #41 on: June 09, 2020, 08:39:03 PM »
What handle do you fly under Pcobra? Just curious.

I have my own notion of who this is.  Be that as it may, I do wonder if he continues to play this game.

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Offline FESS67

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Re: Aircraft engine restarts while in the air
« Reply #42 on: June 10, 2020, 01:28:09 PM »
Putting one’s self in a real world combat situation requiring a right turn at slow/no speed would indicate a lack of experience/situational experience and energy management.  Shutting the engine off at that point would only increase the chances of getting killed or spending time as a POW. Of course, in game we can do anything and justify it any way we want to.  The cartoon world is relatively forgiving.


Don't get me wrong, I totally agree that if I was a real fighter pilot in a real war there is no way I would be getting so slow that I am fighting gravity more than the enemy aircraft and I would certainly not be turning my engine off.  But as you point out, it is a game and I used to play it for fun.  Then everyone got into high speed passes and gun 'n run 3 on 1 type stuff.  More akin to real world I suspect.  Then it just got boring.

Offline Shuffler

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Re: Aircraft engine restarts while in the air
« Reply #43 on: June 10, 2020, 01:40:19 PM »
Hence the term gamey.
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Online Puma44

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Re: Aircraft engine restarts while in the air
« Reply #44 on: June 10, 2020, 01:50:46 PM »
Don't get me wrong, I totally agree that if I was a real fighter pilot in a real war there is no way I would be getting so slow that I am fighting gravity more than the enemy aircraft and I would certainly not be turning my engine off.  But as you point out, it is a game and I used to play it for fun.  Then everyone got into high speed passes and gun 'n run 3 on 1 type stuff.  More akin to real world I suspect.  Then it just got boring.

Understood.  We both understand torque and it’s advantages/disadvantages.  Just a difference of opinion about shutting down an engine, and that’s OK.  :salute

Only 3 on 1?!  I should be so lucky.

Give Monday Night Madness in the AvA a try.  A lot of quick, fun dogfights with real talented players, and good natured smack talk.  Come try it out.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2020, 01:57:38 PM by Puma44 »



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