Author Topic: Old Astrophoto's of Mine and Misc  (Read 1318 times)

Offline CptTrips

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Old Astrophoto's of Mine and Misc
« on: June 06, 2020, 04:16:11 PM »
I have a private observatory on some rural land about 70 mi SW of Ft Worth.  It's been out of commision for a couple of years due to damaged equipment and real-life distractions.  I'm in the process of getting it back on line. 

In another thread Mano and Mister Fork were talking about amateur astronomy and that was giving me the bug again.  I looked around and did find some images I took from years back (God bless Dropbox  ;)) around 2007-2010'ish when I was really getting into it.  I think I posted some of these back then, but just for giggles.....

Random moon shot


Crater Clavius  (can you see the monolith?)


Rosette Nebula


Solar through H-Alpha filter

Experiments with colorization


Craters Hercules and Atlas


Crater Theophilus


Crater Janssen


Uhhh Jupiter ;)



Orion Nebula


Man.. had a bunch more.  Guess I lost them.  Had some great galaxy images.

Observatory outside:


Roof Rolled back:


Scope:


topless


from control room



Hopefully back in operation the Fall.

 :salute
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Offline CptTrips

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Re: Old Astrophoto's of Mine and Misc
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2020, 04:52:59 PM »
A couple more uncovered. ;)



Better Orion Nebula  (Way longer exposure and upgraded camera I think)


Pleiades


Andromeda


North American Nebula (man, that's a lot of stars ;))


Solar flare in Hydrogen Alpha


Star trail image at local astro club meetup








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Offline Easyscor

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Re: Old Astrophoto's of Mine and Misc
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2020, 07:05:38 PM »
Man, are all of those taken on your equipment?
I dropped the hobby in the seventies when I became discouraged over what the local club was able to produce.
I didn't think it was possible to capture images like those.
No one in the club back then could come anywhere close.

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Offline CptTrips

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Re: Old Astrophoto's of Mine and Misc
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2020, 08:54:54 PM »
Man, are all of those taken on your equipment?
I dropped the hobby in the seventies when I became discouraged over what the local club was able to produce.
I didn't think it was possible to capture images like those.
No one in the club back then could come anywhere close.


Yep.  Of course over the course of those photos I was continuing to throw wads of cash at it pursing better performance.  Like everything I do, I end up taking it to far and take something that should be fun and turn it into an obsessive quest. Being miserable is the only way I can truly be happy. ;)

The whole thing started changing in the early 2000’s with the advent of quality consumer grade webcams and digital cameras.  That opened up whole new techniques when combine with innovative new software techniques.

Some of those early moon shots were made with modified consumer grade webcams.  It seems like so long ago, but I think the first one I used was one that pre-modified where they took off the lens and attached a eyepiece tube body.  So you’d put that in and hook it to a computer and start capturing frames.  (The focusing tricks are a whole separate tome. lol)

I’m sure you’ve seen the blurring, distorting atmospheric seeing effects when looking at say lunar craters.  So what the technique was, you’d take a bunch of raw frames.  On each frame, depending on seeing and size of the distortion bubbles, some all or none of the frame might be blurred or distorted, all the frames have high singal noise because they are short exposures on relatively dim objects.  So the magic occurred once you started processing with the software. 

The software could sort through the frames and grade them for sharpness using various contrast algorithms. 
It would also use algorithms to recenter high constrast feature to help correct for drift in frame.
It would then show you a graph of frames high quality vs low quality.  You could then choose the cut off point on what you want to throw away. 

Then the magic; It would begin to mathematically stack the frames above your quality cut off point (That have been centered on a common identified high contrast feature).  That does a couple of things. 
Since the distortions are random, over a large number of frames, statistically, for any portion of the image, there are more frames where that portion is not distorted than where it is.  So you are building up signal that begins to dominate over distortion. 

The other magical thing, is that the noise pixels are also random.  So the more images you stack, you average out those noise pixels.  Noise decreases proportionally to the inverse square of the number of stacked frames.

When that is done you end up with an stacked image of the highest quality frames captured, that has strengthened the image signal and reduced the signal noise.  With low noise, you can then apply some other fancy sharpening techniques without just sharpening noise.

Similary, around that time, high quality digital SLR were coming on the market.  That allowed you to use many of the same techniques developed for planetary webcam astrophotography and apply them the larger format SLR for deep sky photography.  Also by taking multiple frame of a minute or so rather than 1/25 of a second like a webcam.  That allowed you to stack out electronic noise in the image from take low light images. 

Also it allowed you to do stuff like throw out one image of a stack of 60 where a plane or sat crossed the frame.  A Godsend.  Nothing would be as annoying as having a 4 hour film exposure ruined at the end by a passing plane. LoL.

It also had the side benefit of greatly simplifying the tracking problem during a long exposure.  Every scope drive has some error in it.  Usually a periodic error from slight imperfect machining of gears.  In the old days you watch a star at high mag in an attached guide scope through a crosshair and hold a hand controller making constant micro adjustments to correct for that error.  For a whole 4 hour exposure! 

But since you could program the camera to say take 100 exposures of 1 min duration 1 sec apart, any drift within that 1 min exposure could be ignored if it was small enough to not be noticable in a single exposure.  The software would recenter everything later when you stack.

You ended up with a very low noise image with strong signal that could hold up to other more aggressive enhancement filters.

However there was one final glitch.  One of the signals you strengthened in the stack was noise coming of the power supply of the camera.  (Essentially heat) That appeared usually as a purplish halo emerging from the side of the frame.  In a single frame you’d never notice it.  It would be too low a level. But you increased that signal by stacking just as you did the target image.

More magic time.  That same night (is best), given the ambient temp, you;d take off the camera and put on the cap and take a series of dark frames.  All those would be capturing was that heat signal off the power supply (amplified by ambient tmep).  You could then stack those separately to get a low noise representation of that halo, and then your astro software could mathematically subtract the stacked “dark” frame images from the stack “light” image there by leaving only the image of the intended target with the halo removed.  Lol

So, long story short,  :rofl digital media (webcams and SLR) and computer software revolutionized amateur astrophotography. But I’ve been out of it for 5 years or so.  I have no idea how it’s progressed since then.


 :salute 



Further reading:
https://skyandtelescope.org/astronomy-resources/how-to-process-planetary-images/

This is software I used a lot mostly for deep sky stuff:
Images Plus

Webcam/CCD stacking
https://www.astronomie.be/registax/


« Last Edit: June 06, 2020, 10:18:23 PM by CptTrips »
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Offline uptown

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Re: Old Astrophoto's of Mine and Misc
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2020, 09:03:39 PM »
Do you realize the party you could have with all that equipment and a bag of mushrooms?  :banana: AWESOME pics!
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Offline CptTrips

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Re: Old Astrophoto's of Mine and Misc
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2020, 09:16:47 PM »
Do you realize the party you could have with all that equipment and a bag of mushrooms? 

Yes.  I do.  :cool:
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Offline Devil 505

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Re: Old Astrophoto's of Mine and Misc
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2020, 09:55:12 PM »
Great stuff!
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Offline Easyscor

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Re: Old Astrophoto's of Mine and Misc
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2020, 10:02:30 PM »
Dang! I had no idea the tech had come so far.

 :aok
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Offline CptTrips

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Re: Old Astrophoto's of Mine and Misc
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2020, 10:12:25 PM »
OK.  Now I'm really going to bore you. ;)  Some pics from construction the observatory... ahh the memories. 

Vibration.  Bad for astro photos.   The metal pier you saw the scope on in previous picture is mounted to a massive concrete block that sticks through a hole in the floor with a gap all the way around so no vibration from walking around on the floor is transferred to the scope during imaging.   I hand dug 2.5 ft down to a slab of limestone and drilled holes and epoxy'd J-bolts to the hill and then poured a foundation.  (Dad helped. ;)  The rebar will tie the foundation to a second pour for the pedestal the metal pier will bolt to.


Second pour..


Build floor...


Damn.  I was heavy back then.  You can see the hole in the floor that allows the metal pier the scope mounts to, to pass though untouched and bolt into the concrete pedestal tied into the bedrock.  No vibration transmitted from the building structure to the telescope.


Walls...


Welding up the rails that the roof will roll on with v-groove wheels...


Starting to look like something...


Control room.  I can peek in through the window during long exposures in the cold of winter to check everything is running ok and not wound around any axes.  Then set my alarm and get another hour nap on the futon couch.  Wash, rinse, repeat.










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Offline CptTrips

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Re: Old Astrophoto's of Mine and Misc
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2020, 10:40:24 PM »
For non observers, here is an very mild example of the atmospheric distortions you are trying to fight to get a sharp image.  And this is VERY mild.  At my location, there is such a big swing in air temp between day and night most of the year, that the effect is at least twice as bad, at least until very early in the morning. 

On some of my better lunar photos, I had to use software to predict when the moon would be at a good elevation (you want it high in the sky so you are looking though the least amount of air), with the proper illumination on the feature/crater you are targeting (full moon is bad you want low angle light to accentuate shadows), and as late at night and you can arrange it.  3am-4am is best.  The air as had the maximum amount of time to settle down from the previous day turbulence before the coming sunrise starts to stir things up again. It's amazing how easy it is to screw things up when you are working with computers and telescope after getting up a 2:30 am to setup for some imaging.  It takes about 40pts of IQ off you.  :D

(Not my video)


BTW, because of turbulence like that, in most parts of the US, anything bigger than a 10" scope starts dropping off quickly in advantage for planetary imaging.  A 10", webcam/CCD, laptop and software and you can pretty much match anyone in planetary imaging. 

I went with the 12" because I wanted to dabble in deep sky too.  But planetary imaging now days is a great place to start and s lot less expense and frustrating overall that going for those dark fuzzies.

 :salute



« Last Edit: June 06, 2020, 10:46:19 PM by CptTrips »
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Offline CptTrips

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Re: Old Astrophoto's of Mine and Misc
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2020, 10:54:24 PM »
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Offline Shuffler

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Re: Old Astrophoto's of Mine and Misc
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2020, 04:11:15 AM »
Amazing work there. I always enjoy touring the McDonald Observatory when we go over to Big Bend.

Last time we did not take the RV so we based in Alpine. We hit all the places over on that side.... including the observatory.
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Offline Maverick

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Re: Old Astrophoto's of Mine and Misc
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2020, 10:42:11 AM »
Fantastic shots there. I'm really surprised at the clarity you got being so close to the DFW megalopolis and all the smog and light pollution it would have.   :aok
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Offline CptTrips

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Re: Old Astrophoto's of Mine and Misc
« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2020, 12:14:53 PM »
Amazing work there. I always enjoy touring the McDonald Observatory when we go over to Big Bend.

Last time we did not take the RV so we based in Alpine. We hit all the places over on that side.... including the observatory.

Thanks.  I'd like to get back there some day.  I was like 10 yr old when my family visited there on a trip.  Kinda sparked my interest.  I kept jabbering about telescopes until my parents bought me one of these from Sears (not mine, but I had this exact model):


What a piece of crud.  :rofl  Well actually those little cheap "Jason/Tasco" telescopes have a objective lens that really isn't horrible for what you paid.  It was the eyepieces and tripod that made it horrible.  But I was too young and dumb at the time to realize it.  Yeah, I loved it.  Dad used to come out at midnight and demand I get in the house and get to bed.  Sometimes I'd sneak it out quietly in the backyard after everyone was asleep.  It was like having a personal spaceship when you're 11.

I eventually saved up for one decent eyepiece and built my own wooden alt-az mount that was rock steady and it became a very usable instrument for planetary work.  I had it all through high school.


« Last Edit: June 07, 2020, 12:33:03 PM by CptTrips »
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Offline CptTrips

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Re: Old Astrophoto's of Mine and Misc
« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2020, 12:31:19 PM »
Fantastic shots there. I'm really surprised at the clarity you got being so close to the DFW megalopolis and all the smog and light pollution it would have.   :aok


Thanks.  The observatory is a fair bit away from the metroplex.  I get some small horizon glow from Weatherford, more from closer by Stephenville.  No problem with air quality out there.

With digital, a little bit of light pollution is no problem.  You can just zero it out.  We don't use film anymore.

Light pollution really doesn't effect planetary work, imaging or visual observing.  Looking a moon craters at high magnification, light pollution can't even be noticed.

For deep sky imaging, you can compensate for it way more than you used to be able to if your image has sufficient bit depth, through software you can just redefine the sky glow as full black.  Sorta like:

http://www.astropix.com/html/j_digit/digtechs.html


The only thing it really hurts is visual deep sky observing.  Those objects are so dim you can barely seen them even when at a dark sky site.  But for that reason, I have never been that keen on visual deep sky observing.  Even at a good site, with a 12" scope, many objects just look like a subtle wisp of grey smoke.  Only a few objects like Orion nebula can you detect a hint of color visually.  They look nothing like they do in photos where hours of exposure have been accumulated.

The only deep sky objects I will show visitors who aren't observers, is Globular Clusters.  Otherwise they half the time can't even see what you are trying to show them because their eye isn't "trained".    If you want to impress them, you arrange a night where you can view a 1/4 Moon or Jupiter or Saturn.  Moon is best.  It's impossible not to be impressed when scanning across massive amount of detail of the lunar surface at high magnification.   

Even after all these years, it still takes even my breath away.

:salute




« Last Edit: June 07, 2020, 12:34:34 PM by CptTrips »
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