Author Topic: 88s In WWII vs. Fighters  (Read 1456 times)

Offline Slade

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88s In WWII vs. Fighters
« on: July 03, 2020, 09:17:32 AM »
Hello,

In WWII where there really 88s that could use it like a rifle popping planes out of the sky in rapid near unerring fashion like in AH?


Thanks,

X15  :salute
« Last Edit: July 03, 2020, 09:29:05 AM by Slade »
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Offline Arlo

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Re: 88s In WWII vs. Fighters
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2020, 09:54:40 AM »
In WWII there were German 88s that represented a significant threat to Allied aircraft but I think your description is an exaggeration (both historically and in game).

*Wait for the slow traverse - line up - lead - scroll,scroll,scroll for range - click - wait - see puff of smoke somewhere in vicinity of opposing aircraft - rinse - repeat*


Offline LNG15

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Re: 88s In WWII vs. Fighters
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2020, 09:56:08 AM »
In retrospect yes and no.

Yes: There were cases of high caliber AA guns that could knock single engined planes out of the sky including fighters and dive bombers. But that is rare, if you look up the attacks at Lae in New Guinea in 42' a SBD did get blown out of the sky by AA Flak in one shot.

No: Most times 88 or other high caliber flak were mostly used on HBs in Europe like 17s 24s Lancasters or medium bombers. The flak shells were meant to be more of the damaging effect where the bomber that gets hit when it RTBs has too much damage to fly again and has to be scrapped. There were plenty of cases of single 88mm shells blowing wings off 17s and 24s but not many fighters. In WWII the 88 crews can load shells quick but most times its either a miss (which happened a lot) or a hit (plane gets damaged or goes down.)

That's why it is Yes and No.
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Offline The Fugitive

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Re: 88s In WWII vs. Fighters
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2020, 10:01:47 AM »
The difference is "practice"

In real life the gunners did practice but didnt face as many targets as we can in a game. We have unlimited rounds to throw into the sky, they didnt. With being able to shoot hundreds of rounds at hundreds of planes every night ya, some of these guys can get to be that good.

Offline Devil 505

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Re: 88s In WWII vs. Fighters
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2020, 10:45:41 AM »
The difference is "practice"

In real life the gunners did practice but didnt face as many targets as we can in a game. We have unlimited rounds to throw into the sky, they didnt. With being able to shoot hundreds of rounds at hundreds of planes every night ya, some of these guys can get to be that good.

Not to mention that they only ever had decently accurate range estimates on bomber formations. Whereas in game, you have instantly updating range information.
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Offline Shuffler

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Re: 88s In WWII vs. Fighters
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2020, 12:01:21 PM »
In WWII there were German 88s that represented a significant threat to Allied aircraft but I think your description is an exaggeration (both historically and in game).

*Wait for the slow traverse - line up - lead - scroll,scroll,scroll for range - click - wait - see puff of smoke somewhere in vicinity of opposing aircraft - rinse - repeat*


This
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Offline Slade

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Re: 88s In WWII vs. Fighters
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2020, 01:18:02 PM »
Thanks for the responses.  I really wanted to know the truth on 88s in WWII.  Worst thing that could happen is I learn something.

Quote
but I think your description is an exaggeration
I really dont think so.  To better focus the context, there seem to be only a few that have made the time to get near (I said near) sharp shooter good with 88s.  I just cant do that, i.e. give up time I could be in a fighter to get that level of skill in an 88.

Maybe 88s should follow the rulez at least of AI ACK with regard to accuracy and a pilot pulling maneuvers to increase the hit bubble as HiTech has described\programmed it. Program that in that is.

This 88 behavior is nothing new of course.  It naturally makes me wonder though.

Thanks all.  :salute
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Offline Shuffler

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Re: 88s In WWII vs. Fighters
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2020, 01:52:48 PM »
Thanks for the responses.  I really wanted to know the truth on 88s in WWII.  Worst thing that could happen is I learn something.
I really dont think so.  To better focus the context, there seem to be only a few that have made the time to get near (I said near) sharp shooter good with 88s.  I just cant do that, i.e. give up time I could be in a fighter to get that level of skill in an 88.

Maybe 88s should follow the rulez at least of AI ACK with regard to accuracy and a pilot pulling maneuvers to increase the hit bubble as HiTech has described\programmed it. Program that in that is.

This 88 behavior is nothing new of course.  It naturally makes me wonder though.

Thanks all.  :salute

They do not turn fast. They take time to master. IF you want those to not be so accurate... with all the practice they get, do you also think pilots should not be able to get better past a certain point. They get far more practice too.

The easy way to avoid being shot down by an 88 is ... to avoid the 88s.      Fight the planes and not the field.     :salute

PS I have been shot down by 88s on many occasions, "I" simply got too close.
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Offline Wiley

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Re: 88s In WWII vs. Fighters
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2020, 02:10:55 PM »
It seems to me there's been some serious advancements in gunnery lately.  It used to be there were only 4 or 5 guys that I was really concerned about their bomber gunnery.  Now I'd say there are probably 15-20 people that will ruin your day if you don't approach them really carefully.

Same with the 88s.  They used to be ambience, but the last few months, they come close enough to be a concern and occasionally connect with me.

Our controls let us do stuff trivially that took a lot more effort in the real world.  Flaps in an aircraft for example.  Turret traverse and elevation was not as easy as moving a joystick/mouse, from what I've read.  I don't think we should artificially limit things like gun accuracy.  If the physics allow it, it should be able to be done.

Like Devil said, the real time range updates are a big advantage.  Maybe the range updates on icons shouldn't be instant across the board?  Would that still be playable?  I know it would really throw a wrench in all gunnery at first.

Wiley.
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Offline Arlo

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Re: 88s In WWII vs. Fighters
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2020, 02:37:09 PM »
I've been known to hop behind an 88 sight. Kudos to those who can score a hit on an aircraft on one. :cheers:
« Last Edit: July 03, 2020, 03:48:08 PM by Arlo »

Offline Slade

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Re: 88s In WWII vs. Fighters
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2020, 02:39:03 PM »
Good points all.

Quote
Fight the planes and not the field.

I jump in a P-47 or 190f when peeps de-evolve into flying in their ACK.  In this one naturally must fly closer to the field.  When you get an 88 sharp-shooter though you might as well go to another field.  BUT WAIT! Sometimes there are only fights around one field.  :rolleyes:

No solution is perfect in all scenarios.  Given ample numbers though, I'll take your advice even more and stay 2+ k away from fields.  :salute
« Last Edit: July 03, 2020, 03:16:34 PM by Slade »
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Offline Shuffler

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Re: 88s In WWII vs. Fighters
« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2020, 03:19:37 PM »
Good points all.

I jump in a P-47 or 190f when peeps de-evolve into flying in their ACK.  In this one naturally must fly closer to the field.  When you get an 88 sharp-shooter though you might as well go to another field.  BUT WAIT! Sometimes there are only fights around one field.  :rolleyes:

No solution is perfect in all scenarios.  Given ample numbers though, I'll take your advice even more and stay 2+ k away from fields.  :salute

LOL l sure try to. My 38 is allergic to puffy burst.   :aok
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Offline Chris79

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Re: 88s In WWII vs. Fighters
« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2020, 04:13:58 PM »
Maybe killing the radar ought to limit the 88 range finder from 10k to 2k


Chuikov

Offline Vulcan

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Re: 88s In WWII vs. Fighters
« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2020, 08:42:11 PM »
Slade have you tried the 88 yourself?

Offline 715

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Re: 88s In WWII vs. Fighters
« Reply #14 on: July 03, 2020, 10:56:10 PM »
If you don't want your fighter hit by 88 mm don't fly directly at it at short range. Make a curving approach; the 88 mm traverse rate is exceedingly slow and cannot track a fighter making a curving approach, especially coming in high and curving down onto the field.  If you use a curving approach only an 88 gunner that has predicted your tactic will have any chance of hitting you.

Try defending a field in the 88 mm; it is extremely frustrating and very difficult to hit anything.