considering VKB stick, am interested in other's experience, thoughts

[DaddyAce]

I've been using a CH Fighterstick, Pro throttle & Pro Pedals since my return to AH about 10 years ago, and have been happy with the CH stuff....But since the new CH stuff is apparently a crap-shoot on quality I've been wondering about other options.....and one of my sons recently offered to buy me a new VKB Modern Combat Gunfighter Mark III.  So I've been doing some homework before he dumps the $ on the VKB.

The only game I play is Aces High, and pretty much just fly fighters.  I'm hoping folks here can answer a couple questions for me:

1. I notice that VKB hats are 4 switches plus a push.  Does the “push” basically simply add a 5th “switch”?
2. I've always simply setup my CH stuff in Aces High and not used the CH software.  Is this a practical option with the VKB?
3. The VKB stick features 2 “ministicks”.  I've never found good use for the ministick on my CH Throttle, but when I looked over the VKB software manual it seems you can use at least one of the ministicks as hat switches.  Is this true?
4. Have others found good use of the minsticks as  a ministick for Aces High?
5. Will it be easy to integrate the VKB stick with my CH throttle & pedals?

Thanks in advance for your answers/thoughts.       

-DaddyAce

[Bizman]

Not knowing anything about CH or VKB other than what I've read, but:

2) Setting up any stick directly in AH instead of using a third party software is and has always been a recommendable hassle free option.

5) AH will accept any mix of controllers Windows can see. I have 2 different Thrustmaster sticks, the other one working as a throttle only, and Saitek pedals. Someone once had a dozen gaming pads for various functions tied on a piece of plywood, plus a stick and potentially pedals as well. Simply choose the controller in the drop down menu and map a function to the desired axii/buttons.

[Easyscor]

I've been using a CH Fighterstick, Pro throttle & Pro Pedals since my return to AH about 10 years ago, and have been happy with the CH stuff....But since the new CH stuff is apparently a crap-shoot on quality I've been wondering about other options.....and one of my sons recently offered to buy me a new VKB Modern Combat Gunfighter Mark III.  So I've been doing some homework before he dumps the $ on the VKB.

The only game I play is Aces High, and pretty much just fly fighters.  I'm hoping folks here can answer a couple questions for me:

1. I notice that VKB hats are 4 switches plus a push.  Does the “push” basically simply add a 5th “switch”?
2. I've always simply setup my CH stuff in Aces High and not used the CH software.  Is this a practical option with the VKB?
3. The VKB stick features 2 “ministicks”.  I've never found good use for the ministick on my CH Throttle, but when I looked over the VKB software manual it seems you can use at least one of the ministicks as hat switches.  Is this true?
4. Have others found good use of the minsticks as  a ministick for Aces High?
5. Will it be easy to integrate the VKB stick with my CH throttle & pedals?

Thanks in advance for your answers/thoughts.       

-DaddyAce

The Modern Combat Edition has a few more switches and levers, but I have the Space Combat Grip (SCG), mainly because I saw that I could set it up exactly like my old CH Fighterstick. I'll attempt to answer your questions but keep in mind I have the different grip.

1. Yes, the center push on the hats is a simple button like any other.
2. I haven't installed the VKB software because it isn't needed in AH.
3. There is no 8 way hat option for my SCG stick. I don't know, but I doubt one is available for the MCG. If you're using a standard monitor, you'll need to map and use the ministick instead of an 8-way hat switch for views.
4. Not that I can recall.
5. Yes. I used my VKB stick with CH pedals and throttle before replacing both with more non VKB alternatives. All combinations work flawlessly.

Drawback:

I'm surprised the MCG doesn't come in a left handed version like the SCG.

The VKB build quality is excellent and I doubt I'll ever need another stick. I wish it had an 8-way hat option but I don't miss it in fighters. Unlike Virple, the Gunfighter base only support VKB grips.

There are a couple people in here that seemingly have every brand and grip available. They can talk more about comparisons and clarify any of the MCG specs I may have gotten wrong.

Heck of a son you've got there. 

 

[Drano]

I've had a VKB Gunfighter w/MCG-Pro for a couple of years now. Easily the best stick I've ever had and built so well I doubt I'll need to buy another. The base is super configurable with optional cams, springs and clutches you can make it feel exactly how you'd like.

The MCG-Pro grip does have an 8-way hat on it. That particular hat is configurable in the software as a dual use hat. Starts as a normal hat. Long press on the center switches it a two axis hat. I use that for trims. Short press centers them. Long press, back to a regular hat. Really handy.

While you can use it without the software in AH you'll be without any of the dot commands, need to make macros for that. The software is daunting. It goes on forever. You can do things with a button you've never thought of! It's hard to get the hang of but once you have, it comes easy. Without it you're really limiting the ability of the stick IMO.

Availability can be a problem. They're a small company that makes things in small batches. But once you get an order it gets to you quickly. I'm East coast US and shipping takes about 5 days from China.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

[Drano]

Oh and I have a CH pro throttle and MFG Crosswinds pedals. They're not a conflict at all. As Bizman said, if windows sees the controller, AH will make use of it. I'm still using the CH software for the throttle as I have several modes mapped to it. It's getting a bit flaky tho. Couple of the hats are starting to die. Hopefully VKB will come out with the throttle they've been taking about for years now.

The other mini stick on the MCG-Pro? I have it set up as two axii. I use it to zoom view or map. Basically I tried to set up the stick as close as I could to the CH Fighterstick it replaced. But there's so many more things to map!

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

[DaddyAce]

Not knowing anything about CH or VKB other than what I've read, but:

2) Setting up any stick directly in AH instead of using a third party software is and has always been a recommendable hassle free option.

5) AH will accept any mix of controllers Windows can see. I have 2 different Thrustmaster sticks, the other one working as a throttle only, and Saitek pedals. Someone once had a dozen gaming pads for various functions tied on a piece of plywood, plus a stick and potentially pedals as well. Simply choose the controller in the drop down menu and map a function to the desired axii/buttons.

Thank you Bizman.   

[DaddyAce]

The Modern Combat Edition has a few more switches and levers, but I have the Space Combat Grip (SCG), mainly because I saw that I could set it up exactly like my old CH Fighterstick. I'll attempt to answer your questions but keep in mind I have the different grip.

1. Yes, the center push on the hats is a simple button like any other.
2. I haven't installed the VKB software because it isn't needed in AH.
3. There is no 8 way hat option for my SCG stick. I don't know, but I doubt one is available for the MCG. If you're using a standard monitor, you'll need to map and use the ministick instead of an 8-way hat switch for views.
4. Not that I can recall.
5. Yes. I used my VKB stick with CH pedals and throttle before replacing both with more non VKB alternatives. All combinations work flawlessly.

Drawback:

I'm surprised the MCG doesn't come in a left handed version like the SCG.

The VKB build quality is excellent and I doubt I'll ever need another stick. I wish it had an 8-way hat option but I don't miss it in fighters. Unlike Virple, the Gunfighter base only support VKB grips.

There are a couple people in here that seemingly have every brand and grip available. They can talk more about comparisons and clarify any of the MCG specs I may have gotten wrong.

Heck of a son you've got there. 

 

Thank you Easy.   

I use VR, and being somewhat stiff & arthritic, I still use the hat on my CH stick to help this old guy with views.  If the ministick can be mapped for views that sounds like a good use to me.

BTW, that same son was responsible for my Rift showing up here unexpected a couple years back.... 

 

[DaddyAce]

I've had a VKB Gunfighter w/MCG-Pro for a couple of years now. Easily the best stick I've ever had and built so well I doubt I'll need to buy another. The base is super configurable with optional cams, springs and clutches you can make it feel exactly how you'd like.

The MCG-Pro grip does have an 8-way hat on it. That particular hat is configurable in the software as a dual use hat. Starts as a normal hat. Long press on the center switches it a two axis hat. I use that for trims. Short press centers them. Long press, back to a regular hat. Really handy.

While you can use it without the software in AH you'll be without any of the dot commands, need to make macros for that. The software is daunting. It goes on forever. You can do things with a button you've never thought of! It's hard to get the hang of but once you have, it comes easy. Without it you're really limiting the ability of the stick IMO.

Availability can be a problem. They're a small company that makes things in small batches. But once you get an order it gets to you quickly. I'm East coast US and shipping takes about 5 days from China.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

Thanks for the info Drano.   

One of the things I noticed that appealed to me was the flexibility in physically setting up the stick....other than scenarios  I'm usually only "flying" for relatively short periods, but if I spend much time at it my wrist starts to complain, so the light spring options should help with that.

Yes I spent some time reading through the software manual....there is a lot there!  About 150 pages worth as I recall.....and apparently written by someone who's likely first language is Russian, and certainly not English.  Is it possible and practical to ease into using the software by setting up most of the stick in Aces High, but using the VKB software for certain things such as macros?

Okay, you three have helped convince me i should go for it, thanks again!   

[FLS]

If you use a hat for views with VR you don't need an 8 way hat, turning your head slightly covers the corner views.

[DaddyAce]

If you use a hat for views with VR you don't need an 8 way hat, turning your head slightly covers the corner views.

Yes, that makes sense, good point FLS.   

[Drano]

If you use a hat for views with VR you don't need an 8 way hat, turning your head slightly covers the corner views.

Agreed. With my RiftS I think I could get away with just a 45 degree left and right and be fine.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

[Mayhem]

I went from CH to VIrpil your experience should be the same.

First lets talk about Binary ... Because sometimes people really don't get this and while more often than not it is overlooked it is very important when considering game flight controllers. 

a Binary bit is basically an on off switch, 1 bit can only count from 0 to 1 or Off and On, giving them two positions, this is how memory works in a computer it stores binary bits your CPU uses binary and logic gates to make calculations.

In Binary

0 is 0
1 is 1

Now how to you count past one in Binary? You add bits this is what you can do with 2 bits.

00 = 0
01 = 1
10 = 2
11 = 3

The extra bit gives you 4 possible numbers from 0 to 3.

It takes 8 bits to make a byte 00000000 this allows you to count from 0 to 255 giving you 256 numbers.

12 bits gives you 4096 numbers or positions
14 bits gives you 16384 numbers or positions
15 bits gives you 32768 numbers or positions
16 bits gives you 65536 numbers or positions

I'm not sure how the controller is set up on CH gear, Virpil and VKB use 32 bit USB Controllers but we want to talk about axis sensors any way.

CH uses analog Potentiometer to 8 bit sensors giving them 256 postilions. That means you controller can only report a possible 256 positions through it's entire axis.

The thrustmaster warthog uses 12bit or 14bit Magnetic hall sensors depending on when you purchased them.

VKB controllers with MaRS sensors can be adjusted for resolutions up to 15-bit via the VKBdevCfg configuration software. (Note the black box is a 32 bit usb controller not an axis sensor)

https://vkbcontrollers.com/?faq=what-is-the-vkb-mars-sensor-technology-how-is-it-different-from-hall-effect

The VPC sensors use 16 bit contactless iGMR (magnetic field) technology, based on the latest ADC chips.

https://virpil.com/en/8-sample-data/blog/45-mongoost-50-electronics

On my CH fighterstick when I traveled smoothly across an axis the in game stick moved across the axis in a jerky stuttering manor. Aces High detects 16 bits of axis travel which gives you 65536 numbers or positions this is why the numbers run as high as they do even if you run a CH stick with 8 bit sensors.

1 position on an 8 bit stick is equal to 64 positions on a 14 bit stick 256 postilions on a 16 bit stick.

In other words if you move your axis one bit on an 8 bit stick aces high will see it jump from 0 to 255 out of the possible 32,768 positions off of center (center is half way point). When I move my t-50cm2 stick 1 position Aces High sees it as 1 position giving me a much higher degree of sensitivity and accuracy.

If nothing else you can hold E slightly better and your gun accuracy will improve greatly.

I currently run .....

Virpil VPC WarBrd base with a Mongoose T-50CM2 Stick on a 50mm extension in a monstertech table mount.
Virpil VPC Mongoose T-50CM2 throttle in a monstertech table mount.
Virpil VPC ACE-2 (Collectors) rudder pedals in a PEIN (Basic Edition) floor mount.
CH Throttle Quadrant mounted to desk above the Virpil Throttle.

That all being said I don't think there is honestly much difference between VKB and Virpil quality. Both are very good and while one can usuasually do something slightly better than other which one is better is going to be a matter of personal preference.

I will say however if you do not need Toe Brakes and you don't need to Man Spread a lot VKB probably makes the best bang for the buck rudder pedals hands down. If you need toe brakes the best is probably going to be the Thrustmaster TPR Pendular Rudder Pedals but they cost around $700 and can be very hard to find.

Crosswinds are really good, Virpil and Slaw are slightly better. I went with Virpil because I don't like crushing my nards, I need toes brakes, and they have a high level of adjustable which comes in handy with Helicopters, I also wanted to stay in the same manufacturers ecosystem as mush as possible.

Virpils software is hard to use it has a steep learning curve and does not do keybinds or macro's unlike the VKB configuration software.

I do not have a problem running Virpil along side my CH and TM gear however if you need to program keybinds or macros when you are mixing manufacters you may want to look into Joystick gremlin as CH Control Manager is a PITA to get working on windows 10 and it does not play well with other manufacturers programs like Razer and Thrustmaster.

I plan on writing an extensive review on my Virpil gear from ordering to set up to use.

[DaddyAce]

Cool, thank you for the detailed explanation Mayhem!   

My son asked me specifics today, and I decided to go with the VKB Modern Combat Edition Gunfighter Mark III, without twist option, and it showed as in stock.     

[Drano]

Cool, thank you for the detailed explanation Mayhem!   

My son asked me specifics today, and I decided to go with the VKB Modern Combat Edition Gunfighter Mark III, without twist option, and it showed as in stock.     

You're gonna love it. Need a hand setting it up just give a shout.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

[Ack-Ack]

Drawback:

 Unlike Virple, the Gunfighter base only support VKB grips.

You can use TM's Warthog grip on the Gunfighter base.