Author Topic: Yak3 speed  (Read 657 times)

Offline Badboy

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Re: Yak3 speed
« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2021, 03:02:44 PM »
I know how it could be different. But I'm guess that the Germans didn't make inferior props, and mis-match them to engines and airframes. So I don't expect the 109 prop to have significantly lower prop efficiency than a Yak. In game with auto prop control both planes walk the max efficiency line so I don't expect it would be a big factor in the performance differences between the planes.

Of course propellers were being well designed, but aircraft had different propeller efficiency at different speeds for that reason. The importance of speed in air combat was well known so aircraft designers tried to ensure that the maximum efficiency occurred close to the top speed for that aircraft. The two curves below are an example for two aircraft with different top speeds and the curves take into account the prop diameter, number of blades, the activity factor, the rpm, the reduction gear ratio, and corrections for drag, tip speed, tip mach and compressibility. You can see from this the impact that different configurations might have. 



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I'll do some reading.  :salute

Good luck with that. If you have any questions just drop me a PM

Kind regards

Badboy
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Offline Vulcan

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Re: Yak3 speed
« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2021, 04:06:11 PM »
Gents,

I LOVE the Yak-3.  It should be perked though.

The Yak-3 has a tiny/ammo gun package, and very limited fuel. IMHO most people struggle with Yaks in general due to their small size. I fly the 9U and 9T and have always had similar comments the -3 guys get (more armour than a tiger etc).

Offline Slade

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Re: Yak3 speed
« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2021, 05:46:07 AM »
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The Yak-3 has a tiny/ammo gun package, and very limited fuel. IMHO most people struggle with Yaks in general due to their small size. I fly the 9U and 9T and have always had similar comments the -3 guys get (more armour than a tiger etc).

Those are some very good points.

What is also true is:
  • Yaks have fantastic visibility.
  • Yak-3's nose over view is really good. Arguably the best in the game. Little or no obstructions visually.
  • Because Yaks are smaller they can be tough to target vs. P-47s, P-38s etc.
  • Yak-3\9u have good acceleration rate.
  • Yak-3 has a great climb rate.
  • Yak-3\9u have enough speed to run home in most cases.
  • Feedback from multiple BBS posts indicate Yaks are very tough [to damage].
  • Yak-3\9u have a good turn radius (not like a zero but better than most planes).
  • Throttling Yaks back to 2400 rpms gives the Yaks an incredible increase in range.

My notes and comparisons of all plane attributes are here: http://oracledba.help/app/ww2planes/index.php?n=Site.PlaneStats

-X15
« Last Edit: April 21, 2021, 05:59:07 AM by Slade »
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Offline TequilaChaser

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Re: Yak3 speed
« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2021, 06:44:21 AM »

My notes and comparisons of all plane attributes are here: http://oracledba.help/app/ww2planes/index.php?n=Site.PlaneStats

-X15

Good morning Slade/  -X15 , have you ever used or heard of  Badboy's  "AH bootstrap" tool or Spatula's "AH aircraft performance comparison" tool

For testing all the different AH aircraft performance regarding speed, climb rate, turn rate, etc...?

If you haven't, I highly recommend that you give both of them a try... they will help you with gathering the information you have been collecting for your website....

Hope this helps

<S>

TC
"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC

Offline Slade

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Re: Yak3 speed
« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2021, 09:53:17 AM »
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"AH bootstrap" tool or Spatula's "AH aircraft performance comparison" to

I think I did some time ago but lost the links.

If you have them can you post please?

Thanks sir.  :salute
-- Flying as X15 --

Offline icepac

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Re: Yak3 speed
« Reply #20 on: April 21, 2021, 11:44:34 AM »

Avoid the stigma of flying a Yak3 by flying a yak9u.

It will catch a yak3 in a level chase at any altitude and is much better at high altitude.

Offline LCADolby

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Re: Yak3 speed
« Reply #21 on: April 22, 2021, 05:53:57 AM »
Misinterpreting energy states is usually the culprit that lets a Yak3 escape

Offline Vinkman

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Re: Yak3 speed
« Reply #22 on: April 22, 2021, 12:32:41 PM »
It's hard to see how the YAK3 manages to achieve all of this performance with no technology and without the usual trade offs.

Speed. The YAK3 is a low power airplane. 1290 HP is one of the lowest late war numbers. It's below the P-39. The Yak is not appreciably smaller than a Spitfire, or 109, or P-39 for that matter. It has no special wing features, like leading edge slats (109) to help it turn tightly, or razor thin leading edge wings to achieve low drag (Mustang). So how does it have a low drag speed wing, and high angle of attack turning wing at the same time? Where is the trade off? 

Toughness. Yaks are tough...but light. Splits break wings off in high G turns, and fall apart when hit with bullets. The 109 also sacrifices toughness for lightness, and so does the Zero and other light planes that minimize weight to achieve performance. Does it have self sealing tanks? Armor plate?  low gage skin and light weight wing spars?  Why is this plane so light and what price in toughness is it paying for that lightness.  Yak3 weight is close to the weight of a Zero, but they are tough like Jugs.  Where's the trade-off?

Energy retention. The turny wing seems to bleed no energy in high G turns. Again How can it turn so tight with such a low drag wing? 


So my point about the YAK3 is there seems to be no trade offs among the various performance aspects even though the plane is unremarkable from technology and engineering standpoint. No variable geometry wings, no water injection, no two stage supercharging, no kevlar or carbon fiber, no exotic wing design.  Hard to see how this mystery plane achieves the performance numbers it does.  :salute

« Last Edit: April 22, 2021, 12:34:43 PM by Vinkman »
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Offline TequilaChaser

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Re: Yak3 speed
« Reply #23 on: April 22, 2021, 12:44:07 PM »
I think I did some time ago but lost the links.

If you have them can you post please?

Thanks sir.  :salute

I'll try to dig them up....just got to figure out which computer or storage drive I have them on....heads up though... their are several planes that neither tool will have...iirc that only applies to Spatula's tool, but i'd have to check that myself to be sure.....

got some old squaddie's wanting me to try out DCS ( is like a 43 GB install, hah!) and IL2 along with a new Discord server one of them set up for all of us to use regardless of what game we are playing.......just need to figure out which hot handle iron skillet to grab next to finish, lol......

TC
"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC

Offline TequilaChaser

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Re: Yak3 speed
« Reply #24 on: April 22, 2021, 10:41:53 PM »
Good Evening Slade/ -X15,

I made a new thread in the Help & Training forum so I could attach Badboy's AH Bootstrap tool to it....

this Aircraft & Vehicles forum doesn't allow attachments

here is a link to the thread, you will find the attached zipped file at the bottom of my post

https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,402888.0.html

Hope this helps

~S~

TC

PS- still looking through my archives for Spatula's Tool
"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC

Offline Slade

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Re: Yak3 speed
« Reply #25 on: April 25, 2021, 06:45:44 AM »
TequilaChaser thanks very much!
-- Flying as X15 --

Offline Vulcan

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Re: Yak3 speed
« Reply #26 on: April 25, 2021, 05:34:23 PM »
  • Feedback from multiple BBS posts indicate Yaks are very tough [to damage].

I get the same feedback on the 9U and 9T in game. What I observe is that it comes from people flying rides with wing mounted guns. I find that rides with nose mount guns (e.g. FW's, P38, some 109s) have no trouble hurting the Yak (especially nose cannons). When I do get hurt there tends to be concentrations of damage (e.g. engine, nose guns, PW).

Essentially some alt-monkey will dive on you from the dweebosphere in a 51 or 47, try and hose you and 1 or 2 50's might hit there mark. They then climb up to their perch and start whining about how uber the yak is.


Offline diaster

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Re: Yak3 speed
« Reply #27 on: April 29, 2021, 10:08:13 AM »
Essentially some alt-monkey will dive on you from the dweebosphere in a 51 or 47, try and hose you and 1 or 2 50's might hit there mark. They then climb up to their perch and start whining about how uber the yak is.
Well said made me chuckle. That seems to be the priory tactic of the Runstangs I see everyday.  As to the yak. I have had tg3 opportunity to see a few of them in RL. My takeaway after seeing them was well they reminded me of a farm tractor. Very simple but rugged. Some parts were so crude they appeared to be cast. How this plane hit so fast surprises me, how it absorbs hits doesn’t. Small and sturdy target that can move more than the enemy can, good combination. One thing I have noticed in game, seems most yak drivers will RTB if they become solo. They seem to be better as a picker or part if a pack. Personally I rarely fly it but do so (as is for other planes) to learn what it can do. Good comments and observations by all you folks.
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Offline Vinkman

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Re: Yak3 speed
« Reply #28 on: April 29, 2021, 01:58:25 PM »
I get the same feedback on the 9U and 9T in game. What I observe is that it comes from people flying rides with wing mounted guns. I find that rides with nose mount guns (e.g. FW's, P38, some 109s) have no trouble hurting the Yak (especially nose cannons). When I do get hurt there tends to be concentrations of damage (e.g. engine, nose guns, PW).

Essentially some alt-monkey will dive on you from the dweebosphere in a 51 or 47, try and hose you and 1 or 2 50's might hit there mark. They then climb up to their perch and start whining about how uber the yak is.

so If an alt monkey can kill other planes using the same tactic but not the yaks then the yak are tougher.  :salute
Who is John Galt?

Offline Vulcan

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Re: Yak3 speed
« Reply #29 on: May 03, 2021, 06:21:29 PM »
so If an alt monkey can kill other planes using the same tactic but not the yaks then the yak are tougher.  :salute

That's not what I said, read it again.