Author Topic: An early war Allied Bomber that isn't the B-25 or Boston III  (Read 1398 times)

Offline CptTrips

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Re: An early war Allied Bomber that isn't the B-25 or Boston III
« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2021, 07:22:50 PM »
F2M?

J2M. Itís been on the wishlist since the beginning of the BBS. Itís a popular plane in WT.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_J2M


Sorry.  Typo.

How many new players do you think would subscribe if the J2M were added?
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Offline Lazerr

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Re: An early war Allied Bomber that isn't the B-25 or Boston III
« Reply #16 on: July 15, 2021, 08:29:18 PM »

Let me tighten up my argument.

The current list of planes is quite extensive.  Most are flown rarely after the first 6 months they have been released.

Another plane isn't going to materially contribute to changing HTC's financial trajectory, IMHO.   
It's not going to have a large effect on reversing the long decline in numbers, or keep HTC solvent.
Of the thousands of players who downloaded the client during the Steam release, I doubt any of them would have signed up for a subscription if AH just had a J2M.  Nor was the lack of a J2M a deciding factor in them passing on a subscription.  (Not picking on you, just insert any variant or lesser known plane not already in the hangar.)

Don't take that to mean I'm against the idea of new planes.  If the cost and effort were trivial, I'd be all for it.
If the cost and effort were high, but the payoff could reverse the decline in the game, then I'd call it a good investment.
If the plane was so desired by the simulation market that hundreds could be enticed into downloading and playing AH, I'd say roll the dice.

To me, from a business investment sense, the cost and effort to add a new aircraft seems mismatched with the likely benefit from a revenue point of view.  I don't see another plane at this point putting 500 players back in the MA.

If development resources and capital are scarce, which I assume they are, then there are probably other things that could be done that would have more impact on profit.

I could be wrong.  If you end up getting the planes you want, I'll be happy for you.

I wonder this a lot during the current days of the game.  I think perking the higher ENY planes slightly, in combination with usage for awhile, might help drain the swamp a little and get people to spread their wings a bit.  Like a quadrant style eny/perk system that works on guys both in air, and in the tower about to take off.

Offline oboe

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Re: An early war Allied Bomber that isn't the B-25 or Boston III
« Reply #17 on: July 15, 2021, 09:04:46 PM »
I think new planes and vehicles are more about keeping the existing players happy rather than drawing new players in.  With our monthly subscriptions, we pay HTC salaries and keep the lights on and servers running, but we couldn't be faulted for hoping that we are also funding the development of new vehicles and/or game features.   

The only new plane I can think of that might tempt a new subscriber might be the Gloster Meteor - thinking he may get to try fighting a 262 in one.   Since it would require perks, we'd have the new player around for a while while he grinds out perk points.   

I think in general HTC has done a great job of building out the plane set.  There are only a handful of historically significant aircraft missing - the Beaufighter, Sm.79 Sparviero, the Pe-2, and Helldiver come to mind.   I do wish they would finish the Tempest though, and tease us with development shots of new vehicles to come.

Offering AH through Steam was a great way to get a lot of new people to try the game, but most didn't even last 15 minutes of their two week free trial.  To me that says AH makes a poor first impression on new players, so perhaps modernizing the UI and graphics of the clipboard and menu system would be money well spent.   

Offline CptTrips

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Re: An early war Allied Bomber that isn't the B-25 or Boston III
« Reply #18 on: July 15, 2021, 09:54:39 PM »
I think new planes and vehicles are more about keeping the existing players happy rather than drawing new players in.  With our monthly subscriptions, we pay HTC salaries and keep the lights on and servers running, but we couldn't be faulted for hoping that we are also funding the development of new vehicles and/or game features.   

I think that is a fair statement.  I completely understand that point of view.

However, I believe the remaining player-base is fairly feature insensitive.  What they have now is apparently sufficient (in fact many react violently if you suggest changing anything in any way).  They would enjoy a new plane, but I don't think many would leave if HTC didn't add another plane.  They have their friends they've known for 20 years. They have their chan-200 grand-pa chat room.  They have their FSO.  They have their Scenarios.  They have their squad nights. 

All the feature sensitive players have probably already left.  Death and illness are probably the prime eliminators now.

IMHO, the better strategy for HTC would be to focus scarce resources on things that would ADD new players. 

I do wish they would finish the Tempest though, and tease us with development shots of new vehicles to come.

Exactly.  If they can't get a cockpit model updated that they've had for a decade, what are the odds of adding entirely new airframes from scratch?

On the other hand, if you turn the numbers around, if you have 500 players a night in the MA, all other things become possible.  Including new aircraft and vehicles because you have money to spend.

Offering AH through Steam was a great way to get a lot of new people to try the game, but most didn't even last 15 minutes of their two week free trial.  To me that says AH makes a poor first impression on new players, so perhaps modernizing the UI and graphics of the clipboard and menu system would be money well spent.

I think there are things there that would be a better use of resources than adding some French fighter or whatever.  IMHO.
In addition to many other things that I think would provide better ROI, those are different conversations.

Anyway, sorry for the hijack, Nef.   :lipsrsealed:
Hope you do get your bomber.

:aok







« Last Edit: July 15, 2021, 10:21:18 PM by CptTrips »
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Offline Chalenge

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Re: An early war Allied Bomber that isn't the B-25 or Boston III
« Reply #19 on: July 15, 2021, 11:31:50 PM »
There are quite a few people in the game that could make models. The problem is the models need to correct to HTC's standards.

Some of the work shard on the forums here had very obvious issues. It's the non-obvious issues that are even more troublesome. If it takes HTC longer to fix the problems than it would to make a new model, then it's not worth it.
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Offline RotBaron

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Re: An early war Allied Bomber that isn't the B-25 or Boston III
« Reply #20 on: July 16, 2021, 03:42:31 PM »

Sorry.  Typo.

How many new players do you think would subscribe if the J2M were added?

Thereís no way to predict that of course. However, as Oboe said new planes/GVs are going to keep existing players happy.

Would a plane thatís popular in other WW2 flight sims draw some attention over to AH of course, how many, I have no idea.

The J2M, Beaufighter and a few others would not be hangar queens. Would the J2M be the most popular Japanese aircraft, possibly #2 or #3 behind the Ki-84 and N1K.

How long has it been since a plane or GV has been added to the game? If I recall correctly it was the Yaks and the German TDís, wasnít that about 5 or 6 years ago?

Wouldnít it be worth a try?
They're casting their bait over there, see?

Offline CptTrips

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Re: An early war Allied Bomber that isn't the B-25 or Boston III
« Reply #21 on: July 16, 2021, 04:45:03 PM »
Wouldnít it be worth a try?

That of course, is what Hitech has to decide.  IMHO, adding a new plane at this point, with the fleet we already have, would be very low on my priority list, if it were me.   If I had a single dollar to spend, or hour of development time available, I could think of several other things that would probably be a better investment.

I would be using all my time and resources in development most likely to add new players, or develop new games that might attract a new audience.  I'm not against new planes, it's just a matter of ROI at this point, when I assume resources are scarce. 

But I might be wrong.  HT might have decided he will never significantly increase the numbers in AH again, and doesn't think a new game is feasible.  In that case, it probable would make sense to just spend to keep the current players happy and manage the decline.  Maybe the glide slope gets him to retirement.  That's not an irrational calculation. 


Or maybe he could hire one of the previous modelers (they already know the process, tools, and requirements) to add a new plane on contract basis as a side gig.  Or maybe a deal where the modeler works up an estimate of the cost he is willing to do it for and the community can setup a GoFundMe. 

I have absolutely no insight into cost, or how long it would take to add a new aircraft from scratch (not a variant of existing, sub-models, animations, damage model, flight model, etc).  If someone held a gun to my head and demanded a SWAG, I'd be thinking in the range of $10k. 

How bad do you want that J2M?  ;) 

« Last Edit: July 16, 2021, 04:52:30 PM by CptTrips »
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Offline Eagler

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Re: An early war Allied Bomber that isn't the B-25 or Boston III
« Reply #22 on: July 17, 2021, 07:56:51 AM »
More players over more planes anyday

Sadly it's too hard for most new subs these days unless they are ww2 hardcore types and stick it out to learn the basics

They have much easier and prettier (cheaper) choices than we did 20 years ago

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Offline RotBaron

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Re: An early war Allied Bomber that isn't the B-25 or Boston III
« Reply #23 on: July 17, 2021, 04:17:38 PM »
Bad enough that if I had that (hypothetical) $10k to burn, then I would pay for it  :x

Thereís tons of threads asking for way before I joined the forum and some more recent (besides the couple I brought it up).

https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=search2

https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,342275.msg4518544.html#msg4518544

Appears like what we got was the Ki-43, which I will fly almost exclusively when the vulch light is on to try to get out of the hangar and get troops in town...9/10 that doesnít work. The Ki-43 I rarely see anymore.

The main reason Iíd like to see the J2M, especially the late war is because it was designed to reach B-29ís and high alt escort it was formidable against. Since we have so many P-51Dís way up there, I surmise it would very effective against them without having to match them in a Pony or Dora to keep them from picking then running away.

Anyhow only HT knows the cost and ROI so weíre assuming and guessing quite a bit.



« Last Edit: July 17, 2021, 04:26:55 PM by RotBaron »
They're casting their bait over there, see?