Ukraine part 2

[CptTrips]

It's the Friday 2% drop that people were talking about, which did happen.  That's a big drop for a day, but of course one day isn't generally what matters.

Markets almost never bottom on a Fri.  I expect further bleeding next week.  Could be wrong.

If Putin announces the "exercises are over"  and intel confirms significant withdrawal of forces starting, then expect a mini-Bull rally...until the Ides of March. 

[Arlo]

No more spammy than tons of threads with links to random Youtube videos nobody cares about.

Oh yes more spammy. The Youtubes I post are at least interesting topics (or if you don't find them so, they weren't trying to sell you something or ask for money). The NRA needs your money. Pony up. 

(And tons? Heh.)

[guncrasher]

In my opinion... I do not believe anyone in the U.S. government much less
the senate and house...
 

And it is their fault that most (imho) do not... maybe, just maybe, the citizens
of the U.S. will grow some balls and rise up but I doubt it 

maybe they have balls to do it the right way.  vote, instead of destroying the economy.

i laugh at Facebook pages that call for term limits, they are called election. there's a law against insurrection, there's not many laws against voting.

semp

edit: by the way bringing arms against the goverment is called treason, it's the only crime spelled in the constitution.  you want change, constitution gives you another option vote.  you can say blah, blah, the other side, thruth is the other side also says blah, blah blah.

[Arlo]

there's not many laws against voting.

Well, there's laws designed to make voting harder ... for some ... because of ... you know .. not having an electable platform that all eligible voters could dig.

[guncrasher]

Well, there's laws designed to make voting harder ... for some ... because of ... you know .. not having an electable platform that all eligible voters could dig.

that is true, 90k native american indians with id were denied the right to vote.  you may want to research that.

[Brooke]

Well, there's laws designed to make voting harder ... for some ... because of ... you know .. not having an electable platform that all eligible voters could dig.

Pffff.

Needing an ID to vote is quite standard in many places in the world.

I don't see people getting all worried about needing an ID to: drive, take an airplane, pick up a concert ticket, get a credit card, get a bank account, get a telephone land line, get cable TV, get Internet, pick up your kids, cash a check, get an apartment, buy a house, get a loan, get a license plate, etc.

By the way, is the above message of yours that I'm responding to a political post?

[guncrasher]

Pffff.

Needing an ID to vote is quite standard in many places in the world.

I don't see people getting all worried about needing an ID to: drive, take an airplane, pick up a concert ticket, get a credit card, get a bank account, get a telephone land line, get cable TV, get Internet, pick up your kids, cash a check, get an apartment, buy a house, get a loan, get a license plate, etc.

By the way, is the above message of yours that I'm responding to a political post?

id is not spelled in the constitution to vote.  flying, internet, cash check is not a right, it's a priviledge.


semp

[CptTrips]

Pffff.

Needing an ID to vote is quite standard in many places in the world.

I don't see people getting all worried about needing an ID to: drive, take an airplane, pick up a concert ticket, get a credit card, get a bank account, get a telephone land line, get cable TV, get Internet, pick up your kids, cash a check, get an apartment, buy a house, get a loan, get a license plate, etc.

By the way, is the above message of yours that I'm responding to a political post?

I tend to agree.  However the thing to consider is that there are a lot of people in certain parts of town that don't drive, fly on airlines, have credit cards, or license plates.  So it could be seen as a mechanism to make it harder for those people to vote like a poll tax used to.

An obvious solution is to create a photo id system tied with social services.  If you are in the social services system, then you already have a photo id.  And they should accept photo student ids as well. 

[guncrasher]

I tend to agree.  However the thing to consider is that there are a lot of people in certain parts of town that don't drive, fly on airlines, have credit cards, or license plates.  So it could be seen as a mechanism to make it harder for those people to vote like a poll tax used to.

An obvious solution is to create a photo id system tied with social services.  If you are in the social services system, then you already have a photo id.  And they should accept photo student ids as well.

still doesn't answer the question of why over 90k american natives were denied by law the right to vote.  they had id.


semp

[CptTrips]

still doesn't answer the question of why over 90k american natives were denied by law the right to vote.  they had id.

<Shrug>  I'm not familiar with that situation.  What was the reason given?

[guncrasher]

<Shrug>  I'm not familiar with that situation.  What was the reason given?

they lived on a reservation which has no street names, they had poboxes in the nearest town. since their id showed a pobox as an address they were denied the vote you have to have a street address.  if you are homeless, you can legally register using a park bench in a park.  but they werent homeless. so they couldnt vote.  at least 90k in 3 states.


semp

[CptTrips]

they lived on a reservation which has no street names, they had poboxes in the nearest town. since their id showed a pobox as an address they were denied the vote you have to have a street address.  if you are homeless, you can legally register using a park bench in a park.  but they werent homeless. so they couldnt vote.  at least 90k in 3 states.

Well, that is just a sub-class of what I already acknowledged.  If you are going to require a photo id, you have to make efforts to get people who don't have traditional access to driver licenses or normal street addresses, etc.  You can't put unreasonable burdens on marginal population to travel distances to get these ids. 

It shouldn't be a burden for American's to get their id's and to access voting locations and have access to mail-in voting where the distances are unreasonable like the hinterlands of Alaska or something.  Community out  reach programs for the state ought to have funding and authority to travel to marginalized communities and setup mobile id stations.  Like a big bus that can pull into a school parking lot in a community and people come by with what ever records might work and go in one door and come out the back with a printed photo id.

It seems reasonable to require an id, but facilities needs to be setup for valid voters to get the proper ids regardless of their economic conditions.  Id laws shouldn't be able to be used as backdoor poll taxes.

This country put men on the Moon.  Surely we can solve a technical problem like this.

[Brooke]

id is not spelled in the constitution to vote.  flying, internet, cash check is not a right, it's a priviledge.

semp

Both sentences in the above contain misperceptions.

In the first, you are assuming that if the Constitution doesn't spell it out, it can't be required.  That is incorrect and is the subject of the 10th Amendment:  "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

In the case of voting, it is reserved to the States on how they each conduct their voting to determine their Electors and representatives.

In the second, you are assuming that Constitutional rights cannot require an ID.  That is incorrect.

For example, there is one right that is spelled out in its own Amendment, the 2nd Amendment, wherein "the right to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed".  Yet in most states, you need an ID to get arms, an ID and a permit to bear certain arms, aren't free to carry certain arms across state lines, adherence to rules on how you must keep your arms, transport your arms, who can and cannot have arms, and where you can and cannot bear arms.

Similarly, in the case of voting, some states do require ID.

[Brooke]

However the thing to consider is that there are a lot of people in certain parts of town that don't drive, fly on airlines, have credit cards, or license plates.

You don't need a driver's license or license plates or a credit card.

In states that care about voter ID, to get a voter-registration card, you need to show that you are a US citizen and a resident of the state.

[guncrasher]

the constitution says that all citizens have a right to vote, state can and do deny the right for those convicted of some crimes. but law abiding citizens with id are being denied the right to vote.  so how is requiring id deny citizens the right to vote? the point of id is to make sure only those eligible can vote, so why did American native are being denied that right? my argument is requiring id is to stop a certain group to vote.

now they're pushing for no vote on Sundays, which is when historically another group votes, you can argue well you can vote Saturday or Sunday but the truth is they hope less will vote.

semp