Author Topic: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?  (Read 6440 times)

Offline rabbidrabbit

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Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
« Reply #15 on: July 06, 2022, 07:19:39 AM »
So peace talks are out of the question?

How do you think you can defeat Russia without starting at least another Vietnam if not another Afghanistan?

Tough talk er mumbling from potato head does nothing

The longer talks are delayed the more Ukraine will lose imo

Weird how none of this was an issue from 2016 to 2020

Replace the 4am orange man mean tweeter with one senile corrupt bought and paid for career " big guy" and poof...the world goes to sheet in 18 months...

Something else to thank china and the very timely release of their bio weapon experiment which provided the perfect setup and cover for all of it.

Eagler

Russias idea of peace talks is UA capitulates and becomes a Russian proxy state while the Russians pillage the country just like the areas they control now and genocide all traces of Ukrainian language and heritage.  What kind of person actually calls for that?

Offline Eagler

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Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
« Reply #16 on: July 06, 2022, 07:37:18 AM »
So you propose what?

Neverending war? American boots in the ground?

Play proxy war while we all go broke?

The sooner this is stopped and settled the better for the rest of the globe imo

Eagler
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Offline CptTrips

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Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
« Reply #17 on: July 06, 2022, 07:51:12 AM »
So peace talks are out of the question?


No.  Here is what I think would be acceptable terms:

1.  Complete and total and immediate withdrawal of all Russian forces from the territory of Ukraine including Crimea and the Donetsk region.

2.  Arrangement of reparation payments to compensate the Ukrainian people for loss of life and material destruction suffered as a result of the Russian war of aggression.

3.  Regime change in Russia. 

4.  Admission of Ukraine into NATO to deter future Russian aggression.

That would be a reasonable basis for peace.



Toxic, psychotic, self-aggrandizing drama queens simply aren't worth me spending my time on.

Offline rabbidrabbit

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Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
« Reply #18 on: July 06, 2022, 07:51:23 AM »
So you propose what?

Neverending war? American boots in the ground?

Play proxy war while we all go broke?

The sooner this is stopped and settled the better for the rest of the globe imo

Eagler

Very kind of you to throw the Ukrainian people under the thumb of fascism.  I never thought that was an American value.  My personal opinion is that they deserve to defend themselves as long as they are willing.  Letting Putin demilitarize Russia in UA saves the rest of the world from having to deal with an imperial Russia in other places. 

The whole thing sucks and is amazingly poor judgement by Putin but it is what it is.  On the short term, you are right to say it is better for the world for this to be over but given Russian attitude, it is better it is shut down sooner than later and throwing UA under the bus for short term placation of fascism will likely end the same way it did in the 1930s.

Offline Eagler

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Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
« Reply #19 on: July 06, 2022, 08:20:17 AM »
But they can't defend themselves so what now?

And Russia will not agree to any of that Cpt so now what?

Just trying to be realistic here...see Vietnam and Afghanistan for an idea how an extended war will go...

You guys heavy in war stocks?

Eagler
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Offline rabbidrabbit

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Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
« Reply #20 on: July 06, 2022, 08:33:20 AM »
But they can't defend themselves so what now?

And Russia will not agree to any of that Cpt so now what?

Just trying to be realistic here...see Vietnam and Afghanistan for an idea how an extended war will go...

You guys heavy in war stocks?

Eagler

They can't defend themselves?  It seems like they are doing a pretty good job with the resources they have vs what was widely predicted.  They will need a lot more ammo and guns to keep up the pace though. 

Like I said, there is no winner in this situation between UA and Russia.  Even if Russia beats down UA to the point where they both sign a agreement, what then?  This has been going on since 2014 and until Russia stops it's genocidal ways, it isn't going to stop.  Perhaps pause for the next phase but not stop. 

Either the west folds and lets UA be slowly overun or supports UA in defending itself.  I don't like the cards dealt, especially now given all the other issues we face but the cards have been dealt and I don't why we should not make the best of those cards.

Offline Eagler

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Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
« Reply #21 on: July 06, 2022, 08:48:25 AM »
They cannot defend themselves without billions of aid and weapons from other countries..

Without boots on the ground,  Russia will never be forced to withdraw

Not sure who is willing to go there...

I am not for another endless war we lose in the end after spending billions on it and that is what I see happening here..

Please describe a scenario that does not happen in

Eagler
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Offline rabbidrabbit

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Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
« Reply #22 on: July 06, 2022, 08:52:18 AM »
They cannot defend themselves without billions of aid and weapons from other countries..

Without boots on the ground,  Russia will never be forced to withdraw

Not sure who is willing to go there...

I am not for another endless war we lose in the end after spending billions on it and that is what I see happening here..

Please describe a scenario that does not happen in

Eagler

They have numbers and the will to fight.  If the west did step up instead of the trickle in numbers of aid given now I'm quite sure they would prevail.  between that and no aid is a big area of partial support.  If we gave them no support then they would slowly be ground down but I don't see how it's possible for Russia to hold UA ground in the long term given how much the Uk's hate them.  It's not a stan or Iraq where the population where never on our side and we were stuck throwing good money after bad.

Offline CptTrips

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Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
« Reply #23 on: July 06, 2022, 08:54:15 AM »
And Russia will not agree to any of that Cpt so now what?

We should pour as much support and weapons into Ukraine as possible for how ever long as they wish to resist. 

Every Russian they kill is a Russian that will not be shooting at US soldiers in the coming war in Romania, Poland, Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia.

Ukraine isn't Putin's goal.  It is the corridor he has to pass through to get to the Polish Gap (Poland) and the Bessarabia Gap (Moldova\Romania). 
These geographic choke points are Putin's real goal.  All the strategic end goals involve NATO countries.   He will invade them one at a time and hope for sufficient useful idiots in the West to argue to just let him have that one ("then he will be satisfied") before he moves on to the next.  Eventually that will include the Baltic states of Latvia, Estonia, and Lithuania to secure the Baltic coast and link up with Kaliningrad.


We are fast approaching a a series of hard choices:

1.  Allow Putin to eventually attack NATO countries and refuse to fulfill our treaty obligation.

2.  Withdraw from NATO before we are forced to fulfill our treaty obligation.

3.  Wait like a deer in the headlights to be forced to fight Russia once they attack NATO countries.  But appeasement is like crack.  Once you get a taste of it, it is hard to go cold turkey later.

4.  Expend money instead of American lives to give Russia such a bloody nose in Ukraine that they are materially unable to continue their path toward NATO countries.



As long as Ukraine is willing to resist the Russian invasion, it is in our obvious best interest to provide them every weapon we have short of nukes and all the material support we can possibly muster.  It is money well spent and a bargain at twice the price if it saves more American lives later.

The only possible path to avoid a larger regional war in Europe is to stop the Russians cold in Ukraine.  Stopping them there with money instead of later having to spend American blood.

Unless of course you opt for choices 1 or 2.  In that case the US ceases to be a world power.  No one will ever take us seriously again and we will have proven ourselves an unreliable treaty partner.  The US will become the new France.  American Surrender Monkeys will be the new global punchline.



« Last Edit: July 06, 2022, 08:56:43 AM by CptTrips »
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Offline Eagler

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Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
« Reply #24 on: July 06, 2022, 09:26:42 AM »
So its the US military police force to the rescue once again..

Europe isn't going to do anything as their energy depends on Russia...

Be surely to ask for deployment to Ukraine when you sign up to protect them...nothing more irritating than to hear our retired generals on cable news stating escalation is the only answer...war mongers all of them.

We will see how this ends...maybe

Eagler
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Offline CptTrips

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Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
« Reply #25 on: July 06, 2022, 09:33:26 AM »
So its the US military police force to the rescue once again..

I prefer to stop them in Ukraine so that we don't have to use the US military.



You prefer the US to abandon it's treaty obligation?
Toxic, psychotic, self-aggrandizing drama queens simply aren't worth me spending my time on.

Offline rabbidrabbit

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Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
« Reply #26 on: July 06, 2022, 09:34:57 AM »
So its the US military police force to the rescue once again..

Europe isn't going to do anything as their energy depends on Russia...

Be surely to ask for deployment to Ukraine when you sign up to protect them...nothing more irritating than to hear our retired generals on cable news stating escalation is the only answer...war mongers all of them.

We will see how this ends...maybe

Eagler

I don't think the US should be sending personnel into the AO beyond some trainers or advisors.  This doesn't even have to be in UA either, and shouldn't.

Offline Eagler

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Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
« Reply #27 on: July 06, 2022, 10:45:50 AM »
I don't think the US should be sending personnel into the AO beyond some trainers or advisors.  This doesn't even have to be in UA either, and shouldn't.

Trainers/advisors..

Isn't that the 1st step to our neverending wars?

Eagler
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Offline rabbidrabbit

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Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
« Reply #28 on: July 06, 2022, 10:52:38 AM »
Trainers/advisors..

Isn't that the 1st step to our neverending wars?

Eagler

If you want it to be.  It does not have to be. 

We fought way too many unjustified wars to feed the establishment.  Although I'm deeply concerned about that, there are some just wars and this is one of them. All that equipment we bought to keep fascist Russia in check is being used to do so and it isn't costing us our blood.  That is about as good of a deal as we are going to get.  The other side of this down the road is UA is moving entirely away from Russian weapon systems and will be buying ours in the future plus they are going to be sending much more of their resources our way instead of towards other places.   

Offline zack1234

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Re: War in Ukraine: haven't we seen this movie before?
« Reply #29 on: July 06, 2022, 11:38:54 AM »
Russias idea of peace talks is UA capitulates and becomes a Russian proxy state while the Russians pillage the country just like the areas they control now and genocide all traces of Ukrainian language and heritage.  What kind of person actually calls for that?

You actually wrote that gibberish

Your well and truly CNN and Wikidiot fodder :rofl

You actually believe the garbage your so called media allows you to see :rofl

The Ukrainians are no friend of the US.

They played big shot and got left out to dry.

Thank god for the class system.


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