Author Topic: Mid War planeset enabled maps in ma rotation  (Read 1145 times)

Offline Eagler

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Mid War planeset enabled maps in ma rotation
« on: January 12, 2023, 08:00:24 AM »
Every 3rd map is a smaller size map limited to only mid war planes

Don't care about gv's or if they have a limited gv set of mw

More about a variety now missing in main in most a2a engagements

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Offline CptTrips

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Re: Mid War planeset enabled maps in ma rotation
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2023, 10:08:55 AM »
Two weeks.
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Offline whiteman

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Re: Mid War planeset enabled maps in ma rotation
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2023, 03:10:11 PM »
I'd like something like that mixed in

I wonder if this is an idea i should burned at the stake for? The opening hour of a map started with early war equipment only, then progressed to mid war the 2nd hour and then 3rd hour on is open house all available. I'd like to see a way to work them in the mix so they actually get used other than when eny strikes, which honestly doesn't bother me.

Offline The Fugitive

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Re: Mid War planeset enabled maps in ma rotation
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2023, 04:07:10 PM »
This will never happen. Your making a wish because you dont like the planes other people are flying. This sounds like ENY but instead of it being based off of population you force players to suffer through it for the length of time it takes to win a map...... in planes many dont want to fly.

The same goes for "whiteman"s idea. All your going to accomplish is have players log off for the first couple of hours to avoid the older planes.... which many dont want to fly.

Like it or not the vast majority of players today like the "win the war" aspect, or the easy kill type of play. They dont want to spend the time needed to become a good fighter. Lawndarting a bunch of bombs and grabbing another plane is more to their liking.

The only thing that is going to help this game is more numbers. As those numbers grow so will the number of players who want to fight in mid war planes will grow. Unfortunately the things that could bring players into the game are dependent on HTC.
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Offline Fenin

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Re: Mid War planeset enabled maps in ma rotation
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2023, 04:27:21 PM »
This will never happen. Your making a wish because you dont like the planes other people are flying. This sounds like ENY but instead of it being based off of population you force players to suffer through it for the length of time it takes to win a map...... in planes many dont want to fly.

The same goes for "whiteman"s idea. All your going to accomplish is have players log off for the first couple of hours to avoid the older planes.... which many dont want to fly.

Like it or not the vast majority of players today like the "win the war" aspect, or the easy kill type of play. They dont want to spend the time needed to become a good fighter. Lawndarting a bunch of bombs and grabbing another plane is more to their liking.

The only thing that is going to help this game is more numbers. As those numbers grow so will the number of players who want to fight in mid war planes will grow. Unfortunately the things that could bring players into the game are dependent on HTC.

Fugitive is 100% correct here.  The problems that people often seem to bring to these places are symptoms of the onloading issue, you should consider the game blessed to still hit over 100~ Pop peak.  The onloading issue HAS to be addressed before any other, streamlining the UI and introduction to gameplay are vital.  You have to addict them in those two weeks, but first you have to get them to even try for ONE DAY.

The proof, imo, of onloading being the issue is that these same threads existed at higher pops in the past.  There was always complaints about ENY, because it scales.  It's honestly a very clever system that does exactly what it's supposed to.  Keep the fight going and stop a total annihilation scenario.
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Offline whiteman

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Re: Mid War planeset enabled maps in ma rotation
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2023, 04:39:14 PM »
This will never happen. Your making a wish because you dont like the planes other people are flying. This sounds like ENY but instead of it being based off of population you force players to suffer through it for the length of time it takes to win a map...... in planes many dont want to fly.

The same goes for "whiteman"s idea. All your going to accomplish is have players log off for the first couple of hours to avoid the older planes.... which many dont want to fly.

Like it or not the vast majority of players today like the "win the war" aspect, or the easy kill type of play. They dont want to spend the time needed to become a good fighter. Lawndarting a bunch of bombs and grabbing another plane is more to their liking.

The only thing that is going to help this game is more numbers. As those numbers grow so will the number of players who want to fight in mid war planes will grow. Unfortunately the things that could bring players into the game are dependent on HTC.

And that's exactly why I figured I'd be burned at the stake.

Offline Fenin

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Re: Mid War planeset enabled maps in ma rotation
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2023, 04:43:11 PM »
And that's exactly why I figured I'd be burned at the stake.

Don't see it that way. :)  Ideas are always valid at the core.  Player engagement is vital for any game.  I can say from my 6 years of open source game developing for multiplayer games though that 'just taking toys away' from players usually backfires.  "You don't get the thing I don't want you to have' needs to have a very serious, very logical, very straightforward reasoning to it.  Otherwise they take their toys and just leave.  Especially when there are other options for a similar game.  Better to build up than to remove in this scenario!  :rock
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Offline TWCAxew

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Re: Mid War planeset enabled maps in ma rotation
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2023, 04:48:09 PM »
Personally I would LOVE it. But other sadly don't.

The best plane would be spit 9 or spit 8. Imagine the 110 and the Mossie become even better than they are already are :banana: And to me that sounds like heaps of fun to me! :cheers: :joystick:
« Last Edit: January 12, 2023, 04:51:06 PM by TWCAxew »
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Offline Fenin

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Re: Mid War planeset enabled maps in ma rotation
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2023, 04:56:41 PM »
Personally I would LOVE it. But other sadly don't.

The best plane would be spit 9 or spit 8. Imagine the 110 and the Mossie become even better than they are already are :banana: And to me that sounds like heaps of fun to me! :cheers: :joystick:

As mostly a Zero/Frank pilot I don't disagree at all, but like many things in life we have to consider others.  Even if they're silent on this front.  Imagine how empty the MA would feel if those P-51D pilots all just stopped playing for lack of their airplane of choice without the option to switch to a lower pop side to play it.  Runstangs are as old as the rocks themselves, but at least they're an active (well...) participant in the gameplay loop.
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Offline CptTrips

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Re: Mid War planeset enabled maps in ma rotation
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2023, 05:08:59 PM »
You have to addict them in those two weeks, but first you have to get them to even try for ONE DAY.


One day?  Get them to stay one hour and you've made a huge improvement. 

Hitech posted stats one time.  I don't have the link handy, but from memory that out of the thousands and thousands that downloaded the trial during the Steam launch, the significant majority didn't stay 30 min and most never got off the runway.

New user training?  Maybe.  I'm not convinced.  Sure, the intricacies of ACM take a life time of study, but just getting wheels up is not that big a deal.  It's not massively different that IL2, or DCS, or any number of flight sims. But HTC does a pretty good job with the default control mapping that just about any $10 twisty stick works fine first try.  At least enough to get wheels up.  Would necessarily hurt to have a 5 min first flight automated walk thru.  I don't know if that would turn the tide.

I suspect a percentage of them have already decided the game isn't for them when they launch and get a message that it isn't a game with a permanent F2P plane-set and more stuff if you subscribe like they are used to from something like War Thunder (with 70 million registered users they have set the market expectations on how a subscription service should monetize). 

Instead they get a dialog right a start up that, nope, two week trial and then you can only go into some empty unused arenas.  That is not what they were probably expecting.  So they already know its not worth an hour of their time to try.

HTC has stated a small F2P plane-set is not an acceptable approach, so I don't know where you go from here.

 :salute
 
 



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Offline CptTrips

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Re: Mid War planeset enabled maps in ma rotation
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2023, 05:29:13 PM »
Every 3rd map is a smaller size map limited to only mid war planes

Don't care about gv's or if they have a limited gv set of mw

More about a variety now missing in main in most a2a engagements

Eagler


What is the advantage of that vs just bringing back the MW arena?

Or people just populating the AvA again with mid-war maps\planes?

Do they even used the AvA for anything now other than tank night and MNM, which are more special events than what the AvA was originally supposed to be.  I hear they are great fun, but not really what the AvA was intended to be right?

Sorta like what happened to the History Channel. ;)


« Last Edit: January 12, 2023, 05:33:12 PM by CptTrips »
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Offline Eagler

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Re: Mid War planeset enabled maps in ma rotation
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2023, 05:35:59 PM »
I didn't say it wasn't a selfish wish

 :cheers:

To your statement about most not getting off the ground..air starts for newbies 2 week trial?

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Offline CptTrips

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Re: Mid War planeset enabled maps in ma rotation
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2023, 05:42:42 PM »
I didn't say it wasn't a selfish wish

 :cheers:

To your statement about most not getting off the ground..air starts for newbies 2 week trial?

Eagler

I mean I'm not against the idea.  The Melee has really become a late war mono-culture.  The problem with what you are suggesting is you are trying to force people into mid-war. 

I always feel "pull"  (or lure) is always a better tactic than push.  That way they think it was their idea. ;)


Air starts? I dunno.  We already have auto launch right?




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Offline Fenin

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Re: Mid War planeset enabled maps in ma rotation
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2023, 05:51:08 PM »

One day?  Get them to stay one hour and you've made a huge improvement. 

Hitech posted stats one time.  I don't have the link handy, but from memory that out of the thousands and thousands that downloaded the trial during the Steam launch, the significant majority didn't stay 30 min and most never got off the runway.

New user training?  Maybe.  I'm not convinced.  Sure, the intricacies of ACM take a life time of study, but just getting wheels up is not that big a deal.  It's not massively different that IL2, or DCS, or any number of flight sims. But HTC does a pretty good job with the default control mapping that just about any $10 twisty stick works fine first try.  At least enough to get wheels up.  Would necessarily hurt to have a 5 min first flight automated walk thru.  I don't know if that would turn the tide.

I suspect a percentage of them have already decided the game isn't for them when they launch and get a message that it isn't a game with a permanent F2P plane-set and more stuff if you subscribe like they are used to from something like War Thunder (with 70 million registered users they have set the market expectations on how a subscription service should monetize). 

Instead they get a dialog right a start up that, nope, two week trial and then you can only go into some empty unused arenas.  That is not what they were probably expecting.  So they already know its not worth an hour of their time to try.

HTC has stated a small F2P plane-set is not an acceptable approach, so I don't know where you go from here.

 :salute
 
 

All of the players that I've brought with me in the last few days are younger WT players and long term ones at that, and every single one of them wants to sub asap.  I can tell you from their raw reactions that the biggest issue isn't the concept of the game (they quite literally feel that AH is everything WT Sim should be) it's the very, very clunky UI that causes them massive amounts of issues.  They desperately love what I've put on the table for them, but they also admit the UI would have scared them off without me.  So far my success rate of handholding them in is 5 out of 6.  The only one that I've lost was due to the way the game handles higher ping (due to them being UK based) around the time of gunshots. 

Do not discount how absolutely fed up a massive percentage of the WT community is with the way the game is being managed, AH offers lightning in a bottle to them if they can only get passed the UI clunkery, and once they know it they want to latch onto it like drowning rats.  Almost everyone that plays WT wants a better game, AH can be that better game even if its not as 'pretty.' 

Quote
To your statement about most not getting off the ground..air starts for newbies 2 week trial?

This is a non-issue, I won't argue semantics about flight models with anyone but AHs flight models are toylike (especially with the combat trim system) compared to Il-2 and DCS.  This isn't an attack, it's just fact from a player side.  Especially for players that are used to those other games FMs, even WTs 'feels' more responsive but that's NOT the issue.  It doesn't matter if those games are 'realistic' or not, the complexity is just much less here and I'd argue that this is on purpose.  That is a strength if you double down the concept of being a rabidly vicious BFM sim. 

Il-2 and DCS offer dozens and dozens of failure points where you, as a player, can interrupt your own combat experience by inexperience without ever even engaging in a fight.  Aces Highs assumption that the pilot in the aircraft knows what he's doing systems wise is smart, and you should focus on that concept.  Which isn't to say 'we're an airquake hyper bfm game' but AH makes the player feel empowered in their actions without a need to go read dozens of pages out of a manual, or watch an hour and a half of YT videos just to handle basic flight.

You can, and I have, gotten 5 players almost entirely on the up-and-up for basic gameplay in less than two hours.  That is a huge difference to Il-2s hours of engine management practice many feel they need, or DCS weeks of system handling.  The issue is its handheld entirely, without what was essentially a UI interpreter they absolutely would have never given it a chance.
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Offline CptTrips

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Re: Mid War planeset enabled maps in ma rotation
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2023, 06:06:53 PM »
All of the players that I've brought with me in the last few days are younger WT players and long term ones at that, and every single one of them wants to sub asap.


Awesome.  Go get about 500 more. ;)  It will be interesting to see if they stay 6 months.  Keep us informed.

The UI can obviously be improved in many ways.  Some you have mentioned.

Do you think the tens of thousands of trial downloads during the Steam launch that didn't end up with subscriptions were only due to the awkward UI?


[edit]  Have you looked through the reviews left on Steam?  I think outdated UI and graphics were mentioned a lot, but the key take away I got were many were infuriated that the game was listed as F2P but when they started up, they found out it didn't match their definition of F2P (probably because their expectations were set by WT).

Don't get me wrong.  I'm not saying WT is a better game, but I think their F2P model is more successful in luring players to finally get a premium subscription.  At least enough of them to make a lot of money.




« Last Edit: January 12, 2023, 06:15:31 PM by CptTrips »
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