Author Topic: Forced Team Autobalance  (Read 811 times)

Offline Oldman731

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Re: Forced Team Autobalance
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2023, 10:18:37 PM »
Ripping squads & teams apart like this would create quite an outrage, much more than the ENY complaints could ever do.


Agreed.  And hey, I'm one of the people who doesn't care about the war and has selected auto-switch. 

Even thought the squads are fewer and are composed of fewer people, squads have always been one of the big attractions of Airwarrior-type games.  They're the principal reason we have ENY.  Get rid of squads, and the game will disintegrate.

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Offline gozulio

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Re: Forced Team Autobalance
« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2023, 03:33:36 AM »
Several problems & issues have been mentioned.

One that I didn't see addressed is the nature of the game. Unlike the in other games which use auto balancing features for all players, there is a war going on in the arena. And this war isn't over in a few minutes or an hour, it can take many days until the map is won. One big motivation for many players is to win this war. Or to prevent the other side winning it while they are on. You would take that away if everybody could just be switched to another team (or auto assigned at log in). Imagine fighting in a pitched battle for an airbase, and suddenly you're on the other side before you can win it. OR you fought for the team in the war, and shortly before it's finally won, you are suddenly on the other side.
Also, there is still a longer term strategic element to missions in AH, most notably the strats. I personally would feel very uncomfortable having successfully smashed some key installations in a daring 2 hour sortie and suddenly find myself on the side I bombed. There would be no point for me in such missions, which I enjoy quite a bit anymore, if I could not reap the 'rewards' of it afterwards.
I do switch teams, but it's always on a per map decision: When I first time log on a new map, I decide if I stay on this side, or if it's about time for a switch. But whatever my decision, I stay on that time for the whole remainder of this map.


Yes, some players already don't care about the war or the teams at all, but they are not in the majority. Note how few players are green on the roster despite the big perk incentive?

Ripping squads & teams apart like this would create quite an outrage, much more than the ENY complaints could ever do.

That's a fair critique and the reason I didn't address it is because the fact that there's a war going on isn't reflected in the arena half the time. The reality is wars are only being won because one faction is steamrolling another in the middle of the night. If I could hazard a guess, most players (who know about the strategic objectives) don't care because they realize whether they win or not depends more on which of the three teams ends up stacked that night.

As for longer strategic missions I don't think you'll ever get balanced just after landing one. If you do It'll just be really bad luck. Bomber pilots getting balanced doesn't make sense either because their sorties are so long chances are the balance is being called for while they're in flight or while they're AFK. The data is there to differentiate what pilots are doing most of the time, so an algorithm deciding who to balance can factor that in as well.

It's already been stated what can be done about squads and wingmen. Just don't balance them unless you can keep them together when you do balance them. Auto balance doesn't have to keep the team balance perfect, just within a certain margin. If the teams are mostly balanced in player count, then using ENY to make up the remaining difference should be fine. Honestly auto balance is probably what ENY needs to be better, Since the problems with ENY seem to arise when the teams are egregiously unbalanced.
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Offline popeye

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Re: Forced Team Autobalance
« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2023, 08:10:03 AM »
Why do you believe that players want balance?  This morning the numbers are 22 10 11, with half of the "10" attacking the "11" (and the other half defending against the "22").  Only one player was using the auto-switch.  If players don't use the mechanisms that are available to promote more balance, I'd guess that forced balance would be very unpopular.

EDIT:

It just occurred to me that the "10" attacking "11" and ignoring the "22" could just as easily show that players do want balance.

So...nevermind.   :headscratch:
« Last Edit: January 29, 2023, 08:56:03 AM by popeye »
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Offline Dadtallica

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Re: Forced Team Autobalance
« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2023, 02:29:52 PM »
Personally I like the people I fly with rooks and have been a rook my whole time with a few day long checks of the other sides. There are definitely some mentality differences between them.

I am also a win the war type player that prefers the strategy to the furball. I would probably not play as much if we were being forced to switch. I also do not think the eny is really that broken. Aside from some tweaks to the math and mostly that would be concerning plane values. I usually only play at night around 8-11 est, itís rarely a big deal and when my side is affected by it I just find a new plane.


Most of the problems center around human nature not an algorithmÖ not much Dale can do about that.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2023, 02:32:28 PM by Dadtallica »
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Offline Vulcan

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Re: Forced Team Autobalance
« Reply #19 on: January 29, 2023, 08:15:59 PM »
Forced autobalancing was one of the (many) reasons I left WW2OL (iirc, it was so long ago).

Offline Eagler

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Re: Forced Team Autobalance
« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2023, 09:19:52 AM »
Auto balancers should be rewarded better to encourage that behavior as it seems one of the easiest ways to make the game more enjoyable for most..

I say 10x,  20x, etc...whatever it takes..the perks for each sortie run when registered as an auto balance player...and a bottle of rum to boot!

Small map auto balanced could breathe new life into AH imo

 :cheers:

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Offline TWCAxew

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Re: Forced Team Autobalance
« Reply #21 on: February 01, 2023, 10:07:04 AM »
I like the Auto switch system somewhat. However when i used it i ran in somethings that annoyed me so is stopped using it.

Three of the main issues that i ran into where:
- When i was doing something and where having fun and died i found myself sometimes at the other front.
- I like to fly with my friends. If they are all scattered over the place i enjoy flying less.
- The ability to stop switching over and over withing 6 hours.

To fix this maybe we could have it so:
- There is a box that could pop up if the game wants to send you over to another country that you have to accept.
- A squad switch lock. You move together with your squad when there is a 3-4 (or more) player unbalance.
- A checkmark to enable these setting.
- An opt out option when you no longer wish to switch.

 I think my silly squad would like this and make use of it, if it is designed this way.
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Offline Oldman731

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Re: Forced Team Autobalance
« Reply #22 on: February 01, 2023, 10:58:21 AM »
I like the Auto switch system somewhat. However when i used it i ran in somethings that annoyed me so is stopped using it.

Three of the main issues that i ran into where:
- When i was doing something and where having fun and died i found myself sometimes at the other front.
- I like to fly with my friends. If they are all scattered over the place i enjoy flying less.
- The ability to stop switching over and over withing 6 hours.

To fix this maybe we could have it so:
- There is a box that could pop up if the game wants to send you over to another country that you have to accept.
- A squad switch lock. You move together with your squad when there is a 3-4 (or more) player unbalance.
- A checkmark to enable these setting.
- An opt out option when you no longer wish to switch.

 I think my silly squad would like this and make use of it, if it is designed this way.


Good suggestions!

- oldman

Offline haggerty

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Re: Forced Team Autobalance
« Reply #23 on: February 25, 2023, 07:43:15 PM »
I like using the autobalance feature, but the other players that do not use the feature are extremely loyal to their chess piece and chastise anyone that is autoswitched.  From verbal abuse to refusing to help those players in all aspects.  You'll have a tough sell forcing those type of players to be forcefully switched.
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Offline whiteman

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Re: Forced Team Autobalance
« Reply #24 on: March 01, 2023, 09:50:40 AM »
Forced autobalancing was one of the (many) reasons I left WW2OL (iirc, it was so long ago).

Force switched is why i ditched Battlefield, nothing more irritating than getting your clan together then, your on the other team every fing round.

I like using the autobalance feature, but the other players that do not use the feature are extremely loyal to their chess piece and chastise anyone that is autoswitched.  From verbal abuse to refusing to help those players in all aspects.  You'll have a tough sell forcing those type of players to be forcefully switched.


Those people have mental issues, you're trying to help balance the game so eny is at a minimum but they assume any that switches is a spy. I squelched those nuts.