Author Topic: Poland  (Read 7502 times)

Offline CptTrips

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8269
Re: Poland
« Reply #105 on: October 05, 2023, 01:55:58 PM »
It only exists in James Bond movies....

And Q forums.

Toxic, psychotic, self-aggrandizing drama queens simply aren't worth me spending my time on.

Offline guncrasher

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17360
Re: Poland
« Reply #106 on: October 05, 2023, 02:38:51 PM »
When ever I see the term regarding "isolationism" as they call it for pro Americans who want America to do better. I usually refer to that as "we should still continue to rob Americans by any means necessary to support the world and their failing economic policies."  I simply cannot understand why these people think our money deserves to be theirs. I think most of us are tired of China reaping the benefits of our manufacturing gross incomes for American companies running away from our bloated regulatory system.

out of curiosity do tell what we need to do to america to do better. 


semp
you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline Eagler

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18207
Re: Poland
« Reply #107 on: October 05, 2023, 02:47:52 PM »
Just to confirm one last thing for me in this thread...

There is no one for American or UK boots on the ground in Ukraine correct? Our weapons are enough to get the job done.

I think that is what I  hear here ...thanks !

Eagler
"Masters of the Air" Scenario - JG27


Intel Core i7-13700KF | GIGABYTE Z790 AORUS Elite AX | 64GB G.Skill DDR5 | 16GB GIGABYTE RTX 4070 Ti Super | 850 watt ps | pimax Crystal Light | Warthog stick | TM1600 throttle | VKB Mk.V Rudder

Offline CptTrips

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8269
Re: Poland
« Reply #108 on: October 05, 2023, 02:58:20 PM »
Just to confirm one last thing for me in this thread...

There is no one for American or UK boots on the ground in Ukraine correct? Our weapons are enough to get the job done.

I think that is what I  hear here ...thanks !

Eagler

Correct.

Unless the Russians use tactical nuke, chem, or bio.  We've told them if they do there will be immediate and direct NATO response and all bets are off.

Or NATO is attacked.  I still wouldn't want boots on the ground in Ukraine.  I'd want boots on the ground in Moscow stomping on the throat of the last Russian trying and crawl away from the battlefield dragging his intestines behind him to die alone and cold in the ruble.

Toxic, psychotic, self-aggrandizing drama queens simply aren't worth me spending my time on.

Offline DmonSlyr

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6658
Re: Poland
« Reply #109 on: October 05, 2023, 03:09:03 PM »
Eagler,

America First has a long and nasty history (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America_First_Committee).

Currently, slogan is associated with someone who admires Putin, expressed it on number of occasions and actively threatened Ukrainian government if it wouldn't support his political agenda. Based on those facts, one can logically surmise what is that person likely to do if they were to be in power again. He clearly showed that for him it isn't America First, it is only "me first". But then again, he might be megalomaniacal enough to identify himself as personification of USA.

But more important question is - what do we lose? Our current support is mostly out of storage which we would pay to utilize in couple of years. We're actually saving on maintenance and disposal costs. We're yet to send anything out of active service or anything that would decrease our own readiness levels.

What do we get in return? Russia is bleeding itself dry, it is clearly shown to be a paper tiger and we can start thinking about concentrating on China as Russia isn't a near peer in any sense of the word. Our industrial military complex is having a sale of the century as everyone knows that russian hardware is not very good, we're moving more and more industry back.

As harsh as it sounds, USA benefits out of this war. And before our local conspiracy theorists arrive, so does everyone else ( other then russia). Nobody provoked Putin, he made that choice and now he is ripping the consequences.

You said that it is a long war and you are concerned about loss of life. Fair enough. Would you give up ? If the Red Dawn scenario arriveed, would you be ok with giving part of the country to the invader, or giving it all? Isn't it better to die standing up rather then live on your knees? We, as Americans don't bow to anyone. You diddly with us, you get diddlyed. Well, Ukrainians aren't much different. They are just as proud, and we're helping a good cause. We're helping them to stand against odds. If they had too much victims, they will choose when to stop. But as long as they want to keep going, as long as they want to be free men rather then russian slaves, we owe it to them to help. It aligns with our principles and doesn't cost us much. Helping ukraine is very much putting america first.

Dmonslyr - get help please. I'm not sure how you arrived at that alternative reality, but it isn't healthy. World is not one big conspiracy, with masterminds and puppeteers. If you ever worked in any large project or company, you should observe that it is nearly impossible to organize people to do things in secret or for people to have same determination to a shared goal. Most organizations have hard time functioning day to day, doing any clandestine/far reaching/secretive/coordinated on global scale projects is simply impossible. It only exists in James Bond movies....

First of all, the guy you are referring to had 0 wars or global military chaos and conflict. Infact he also had 3 middle east peace treaties. He took out real terrorist cells. There was no war! And yet you are propagandized to think he will start one, even though it's happened under the current administration (cough cough)...

Secondly, Putin was provoked. You've been labeling him every name in the book for 7 years and claiming he hacked our election   and blamed an entire presidential movement on Putin and Russia. Then the shady crap in Ukraine under his nose, and you act like the man doesn't have any intellegnece on what is actually going on, and you write it all off and shrug it all off and pretend nothing is going on and so of course they shook the bear too much and now it bit back. NOT UNDER THE OTHER GUY though, who you still make false claims about even though it all happening under this THIS GUY.

You seem to forget that there are "leaders" running things at a high level. Look at the Fed for example. Or look at the WEF tentacles, the EU tentacles, UN tentacles and how they all have this same agenda if you will. Klous Schwab came out and said he wants US highways to be Parks by 2030 LOL. Who do you think is funding this guy? You are naive if you believe that there isn't systems and organizations in play here trying to manipulate the world and culture. I feel bad that you can't see it.






« Last Edit: October 05, 2023, 04:03:17 PM by DmonSlyr »
The Damned(est. 1988)
-=Army of Muppets=-
2014 & 2018 KoTH ToC Champion

Offline GasTeddy

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1095
Re: Poland
« Reply #110 on: October 05, 2023, 04:36:06 PM »
The agreement was written in the first sentence of which you quoted, had you taken the time to read what I had posted you may have noticed that.

And if you had read Minsk Agreement, you might have noticed that separatists were more to blame.

Offline save

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2849
Re: Poland
« Reply #111 on: October 06, 2023, 08:46:52 AM »
Putin have succeeded doing exactly what he wanted to avoid - a NATO expansion.

Finland is already a part of NATO due to Putin's aggression, and Sweden will probably join in short order, something that is needed tor NATO to protect the Baltic states in an Article 5 situation.

Sweden have re-militarized much of it's abandoned strategic points, Finland have always kept an eye on its big neighbor in the east and have kept its forces after the old cold war.


Not only did he increase the border against NATO with about 1000km, he also made the Baltic Sea pretty much a NATO lake.
My ammo last for 6 Lancasters, or one Yak3.
"And the Yak 3 ,aka the "flying Yamato"..."
-Caldera

Offline CptTrips

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8269
Re: Poland
« Reply #112 on: October 06, 2023, 10:31:51 AM »

A Ruble is worth less than a US penny.

Let that sink in.



Eat it, Boris.  And choke on it.



Toxic, psychotic, self-aggrandizing drama queens simply aren't worth me spending my time on.

Offline GasTeddy

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1095
Re: Poland
« Reply #113 on: October 06, 2023, 01:21:24 PM »

Putin have succeeded doing exactly what he wanted to avoid - a NATO expansion.


Exactly. Like president Niinistö told Putin, "Look at the mirror, you made us do this". 1340 km more NATO border and Baltic Sea surrounded.


A Ruble is worth less than a US penny.


That's what I've asked from several Russophiles; If sanctions do not effect as you claim, why is rouble close to zero and intersts skyhigh? Shouldn't it be exactly opposite.

Country with biggest surface in the world, everything possible available from oil via minerals to taiga, enormously vast forests. Everything to make a country rich and wealthy. But already befor war, economy about same size than Italy.

Offline Lazerr

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4849
Re: Poland
« Reply #114 on: October 06, 2023, 02:22:21 PM »
Maybe we should move in, nice hop across the water from Alaska.  South America,  North America, New America.

It doesn't make sense.. but it you know what I mean   :rofl
« Last Edit: October 06, 2023, 02:24:10 PM by Lazerr »

Offline CptTrips

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8269
Re: Poland
« Reply #115 on: October 06, 2023, 03:00:16 PM »
Country with biggest surface in the world, everything possible available from oil via minerals to taiga, enormously vast forests. Everything to make a country rich and wealthy. But already befor war, economy about same size than Italy.

What most people miss, including a lot of famous policy makers,  is that you can have no sustainable, virtuous Capitalism without a strong tradition of rule of law.  Contracts have to mean something to both parties or you can't do business.  In fundamentally corrupt cultures, business can't function efficiently.  For business to function efficiently, there has to be reliable, and most importantly, predictable rule of law.  You can't function if you never know if some crony is just going to take all your stuff.  You get invited to sell at a discount to a friend of Vlad. Or else.

Russia was pushed to soon by zealots into raw Capitalism before they has a stable government or reliable rule of law.  So what you ended up with was not virtuous Capitalism, but a Kleptocracy run by a handful of Oligarchs.  Russia is what you get when Capitalism turns malignent.

Frankly, I am not convinced they will ever work right.  The West has over a thousand years of various forms of Democracy or limited Monarchy or Parliamentarism.  Of rule of law over men.

The fundamental psychological framework of a Russian is that there needs to be a single strongman with unlimited power and absolute rule.  They've never truly had anything else.  I'm not convinced that deep down the society even wants that.  Their culture does not have the same political DNA as Western Europe and America.


Mexico has the same problem.  They should be dripping in wealth.  But their entire culture has always been fundamentally based on corruption.

The difference in America is our country was formed by independent family farmers being granted autonomous plots that they and their decedents owned directly, importunity.
Many of the colonies were private corporations with a Royal OK. ;)

In Mexico\South America land was granted by a King by Royal Decree.  These were noblemen and Royal gov officials.  There as no broad citizen egalitarianism.  A vast landowner and everyone else was a slave.  Mexico is what America would have been like if it had all been like the South based on a plantation economic system instead of flatter economic strata of thousands of small yeomen farmers.

The differences in the initial economic models had huge implications over our development over time. All the Spain based cultures in Mexico and SA just have a harder time getting to the First World status because of corruption.  Plus we had the Magna Carta in our cultural history and Spain didn't.

Oh strayed off topic.  Coffee and a puff will do that to you. ;)

Toxic, psychotic, self-aggrandizing drama queens simply aren't worth me spending my time on.

Offline Eagler

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18207
Re: Poland
« Reply #116 on: October 07, 2023, 07:42:18 AM »
This comment about Afghanistan sums up want I think will be said about this war when it's over..

" If you are ever feeling useless remember it took 20 years, 3 trillion dollars and 4 US presidents to replace the Taliban with the Taliban "

Eagler
"Masters of the Air" Scenario - JG27


Intel Core i7-13700KF | GIGABYTE Z790 AORUS Elite AX | 64GB G.Skill DDR5 | 16GB GIGABYTE RTX 4070 Ti Super | 850 watt ps | pimax Crystal Light | Warthog stick | TM1600 throttle | VKB Mk.V Rudder

Offline CptTrips

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8269
Re: Poland
« Reply #117 on: October 07, 2023, 10:42:48 AM »
This comment about Afghanistan sums up want I think will be said about this war when it's over..

" If you are ever feeling useless remember it took 20 years, 3 trillion dollars and 4 US presidents to replace the Taliban with the Taliban "

Eagler

Of course in both cases, we weren't the ones to start the hostilities.

You can thank Osama and Vlad.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2023, 10:54:38 AM by CptTrips »
Toxic, psychotic, self-aggrandizing drama queens simply aren't worth me spending my time on.

Offline GasTeddy

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1095
Re: Poland
« Reply #118 on: October 07, 2023, 12:34:19 PM »
Some places in this planet should just be cordoned off with high and thick wall.

Offline CptTrips

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8269
Re: Poland
« Reply #119 on: October 07, 2023, 03:27:59 PM »
Toxic, psychotic, self-aggrandizing drama queens simply aren't worth me spending my time on.