Author Topic: Can the hydrogen fuel cell compete with electric and diesel?  (Read 428 times)

Offline Mano

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Can the hydrogen fuel cell compete with electric and diesel?
« on: October 14, 2023, 08:40:31 AM »




:salute

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Offline save

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Re: Can the hydrogen fuel cell compete with electric and diesel?
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2023, 07:30:08 PM »
Trucks have been driven for decades with LPG, specially in SE Asia.

What is needed is the infrastructure to support Hydrogen refueling.

We have a couple of dozens of hydrogen taxis around Stockholm here in Sweden, they only have a few places to refuel, and a taxi guy I spoke with told me he will be going back to mild hybrid gasoline, giving him 59 U.S. MPG, because of lack of infrastructure for hydrogen.

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Offline oboe

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Re: Can the hydrogen fuel cell compete with electric and diesel?
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2023, 09:52:48 PM »
I'm happy to see progress being made toward the reduction of fossil fuel use in transportation, with multiple technologies. 

I Googled, "how is industrial hydrogen produced?"

The answer (from Wikipedia):

Quote
Hydrogen production is the family of industrial methods for generating hydrogen gas. There are four main sources for the commercial production of hydrogen: natural gas, oil, coal, and electrolysis of water; which account for 48%, 30%, 18% and 4% of the world's hydrogen production respectively.[1] Fossil fuels are the dominant source of industrial hydrogen.[2] As of 2020, the majority of hydrogen (~95%) is produced by steam reforming of natural gas and other light hydrocarbons, partial oxidation of heavier hydrocarbons, and coal gasification.[3][4] Other methods of hydrogen production include biomass gasification and methane pyrolysis. Methane pyrolysis and water electrolysis can use any source of electricity including renewable energy.

So if I read that correctly, 96% of industrial hydrogen is currently produced from fossil fuels (Natural Gas, Oil, & Coal).   Long way to go it seems, to make Hydrogen a truly green energy source, available on a large scale.   And what happens to to Carbon atoms when the Hydrogen is liberated from natural gas or coal?

Currently, roughly 40% of Colorado's electrical grid is energy produced from renewables like wind and solar, the remaining 60% is from fossil fuels (mostly coal, I think).   I hope this will improve over time, but we do need to keep in mind how the fuel for the 'green' transportation is produced - that needs to be green technology as well, or its not as big a win as we might think.

<S>

Offline Vulcan

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Re: Can the hydrogen fuel cell compete with electric and diesel?
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2023, 10:14:19 PM »
I've seen some stuff recently where they are blending hydrogen with diesel, seems to require minimum mods and works well.

Offline lyric1

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Offline oboe

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Re: Can the hydrogen fuel cell compete with electric and diesel?
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2023, 07:00:41 AM »
Like this story.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAEhhYqMEBE

Liked it.  36K likes.   Love the sound of that V8. 

Offline Shuffler

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Re: Can the hydrogen fuel cell compete with electric and diesel?
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2023, 03:14:28 PM »
They have developed a hydrogen that stays in powder form. It does not go to gas till needed. This takes most of the hazards out of storing it on a vehicle.
https://newatlas.com/energy/mechanochemical-breakthrough-unlocks-cheap-safe-powdered-hydrogen/
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Offline BOBO

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Re: Can the hydrogen fuel cell compete with electric and diesel?
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2023, 09:43:07 PM »
Toyota appears to be betting on engines that burn "Green Ammonia" instead of hydrogen fuel cell & battery powered EV now.

"Blue Ammonia" has been powering some ships for a short time and I haven't read about any disasters yet. 

Personally I like ammonia but only because I earn my living with it.

Offline GasTeddy

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Re: Can the hydrogen fuel cell compete with electric and diesel?
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2023, 03:37:51 AM »
Like this story.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAEhhYqMEBE

Wow! I want one! [Running to buy a lottery ticket :bolt: ]

Offline Eagler

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Re: Can the hydrogen fuel cell compete with electric and diesel?
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2023, 07:29:21 AM »
Just cut to the point of all the green nonsense



Don't worry while you pedal around those they gave you your bicycle will still be in limos and private jets..

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