Author Topic: Can the hydrogen fuel cell compete with electric and diesel?  (Read 528 times)

Offline Mano

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2191
Can the hydrogen fuel cell compete with electric and diesel?
« on: October 14, 2023, 08:40:31 AM »




:salute

Everything is funny as long as it is happening to somebody else.
- Will Rogers (1879 - 1935)

Offline save

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2852
Re: Can the hydrogen fuel cell compete with electric and diesel?
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2023, 07:30:08 PM »
Trucks have been driven for decades with LPG, specially in SE Asia.

What is needed is the infrastructure to support Hydrogen refueling.

We have a couple of dozens of hydrogen taxis around Stockholm here in Sweden, they only have a few places to refuel, and a taxi guy I spoke with told me he will be going back to mild hybrid gasoline, giving him 59 U.S. MPG, because of lack of infrastructure for hydrogen.

My ammo last for 6 Lancasters, or one Yak3.
"And the Yak 3 ,aka the "flying Yamato"..."
-Caldera

Offline oboe

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9805
Re: Can the hydrogen fuel cell compete with electric and diesel?
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2023, 09:52:48 PM »
I'm happy to see progress being made toward the reduction of fossil fuel use in transportation, with multiple technologies. 

I Googled, "how is industrial hydrogen produced?"

The answer (from Wikipedia):

Quote
Hydrogen production is the family of industrial methods for generating hydrogen gas. There are four main sources for the commercial production of hydrogen: natural gas, oil, coal, and electrolysis of water; which account for 48%, 30%, 18% and 4% of the world's hydrogen production respectively.[1] Fossil fuels are the dominant source of industrial hydrogen.[2] As of 2020, the majority of hydrogen (~95%) is produced by steam reforming of natural gas and other light hydrocarbons, partial oxidation of heavier hydrocarbons, and coal gasification.[3][4] Other methods of hydrogen production include biomass gasification and methane pyrolysis. Methane pyrolysis and water electrolysis can use any source of electricity including renewable energy.

So if I read that correctly, 96% of industrial hydrogen is currently produced from fossil fuels (Natural Gas, Oil, & Coal).   Long way to go it seems, to make Hydrogen a truly green energy source, available on a large scale.   And what happens to to Carbon atoms when the Hydrogen is liberated from natural gas or coal?

Currently, roughly 40% of Colorado's electrical grid is energy produced from renewables like wind and solar, the remaining 60% is from fossil fuels (mostly coal, I think).   I hope this will improve over time, but we do need to keep in mind how the fuel for the 'green' transportation is produced - that needs to be green technology as well, or its not as big a win as we might think.

<S>

Offline Vulcan

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9891
Re: Can the hydrogen fuel cell compete with electric and diesel?
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2023, 10:14:19 PM »
I've seen some stuff recently where they are blending hydrogen with diesel, seems to require minimum mods and works well.

Offline lyric1

  • Skinner Team
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10633

Offline oboe

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9805
Re: Can the hydrogen fuel cell compete with electric and diesel?
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2023, 07:00:41 AM »
Like this story.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAEhhYqMEBE

Liked it.  36K likes.   Love the sound of that V8. 

Offline Shuffler

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 27091
Re: Can the hydrogen fuel cell compete with electric and diesel?
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2023, 03:14:28 PM »
They have developed a hydrogen that stays in powder form. It does not go to gas till needed. This takes most of the hazards out of storing it on a vehicle.
https://newatlas.com/energy/mechanochemical-breakthrough-unlocks-cheap-safe-powdered-hydrogen/
80th FS "Headhunters"

S.A.P.P.- Secret Association Of P-38 Pilots (Lightning In A Bottle)

Offline BOBO

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 250
Re: Can the hydrogen fuel cell compete with electric and diesel?
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2023, 09:43:07 PM »
Toyota appears to be betting on engines that burn "Green Ammonia" instead of hydrogen fuel cell & battery powered EV now.

"Blue Ammonia" has been powering some ships for a short time and I haven't read about any disasters yet. 

Personally I like ammonia but only because I earn my living with it.

Offline GasTeddy

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1096
Re: Can the hydrogen fuel cell compete with electric and diesel?
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2023, 03:37:51 AM »
Like this story.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAEhhYqMEBE

Wow! I want one! [Running to buy a lottery ticket :bolt: ]

Offline Eagler

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18219
Re: Can the hydrogen fuel cell compete with electric and diesel?
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2023, 07:29:21 AM »
Just cut to the point of all the green nonsense



Don't worry while you pedal around those they gave you your bicycle will still be in limos and private jets..

Eagler
"Masters of the Air" Scenario - JG27


Intel Core i7-13700KF | GIGABYTE Z790 AORUS Elite AX | 64GB G.Skill DDR5 | 16GB GIGABYTE RTX 4070 Ti Super | 850 watt ps | pimax Crystal Light | Warthog stick | TM1600 throttle | VKB Mk.V Rudder