Author Topic: Arena idea FR & RR  (Read 2938 times)

Offline CptTrips

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Re: Arena idea FR & RR
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2023, 02:51:01 PM »
[Animl's poorly formatted response....]

You made a suggestion to try and attract more new players. 

I pointed out the factors that would largely prevent it from having the intended effect.  how is that off topic (given your suggestion was posted in the wrong place to begin with)?

Or by off topic did you mean the only intent was to have people praise your stable genius?

OK, I submit.  How about this;

"Gosh golly, Animl!  You are so smart!  You're like the smartest!  This is such a genius idea that is sure to totally change the course of the whole game!  This will absolutely change the course of Aces High!  Possible all online flightsim.  Dare I say, possibly change the course of Humankind!  Should we sing songs about you, or would a statue suffice?  Oh, and forget about the Wishlist topic.  That is for mere mortals.  Your ideas are far too important to be co-mingled with the ideas of the little people!"

Is that more of what you were expecting?





« Last Edit: October 15, 2023, 04:16:07 PM by CptTrips »
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Offline Animl-AW

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Re: Arena idea FR & RR
« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2023, 03:05:08 PM »
You made a suggestion to try and attract more new players. 

I pointed out the factors that would largely prevent it from having the intended effect.  how is that off topic (given your suggestion was posted in the wrong place to begin with)?

Or by off topic did you mean the only intent was to have people praise your stable genius?

OK, I submit.  How about this;

"Gosh golly, Animl!  You are so smart!  You're like the smartest!  This is such a genius idea that is sure to totally change the course of the whole game!  This will absolutely change the course of Aces High!  Possible all online flightsim.  Dare I say, possibly change the course of Humankind!  Should we sing songs about you, or would a statue suffice?  Oh, and forget about the Wishlist topic.  That is for mere mortals.  Your ideas are far to important to be co-mingled with the ideas of the little people!"

Is that more of what you were expecting?

You have severe cognitive issues. We all know why you’re in this thread, to cast doomsday repeats (2000 times) on a simple fleeting idea.

You hate it, it must be good for AH

A thread awaits you in oclub, its because of your childish behavior. We all know ehy you hate me, you lust for AH to die for your migration plans. You don’t have s fan club here. Move along spammer.

You’re here to hijack a thread to block any ideas that may help AH. All we gave to do is see ur name in a thread and we already know what you’re going to do. You have the thinest skin of anyone. “Insecurities”.

Offline CptTrips

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Re: Arena idea FR & RR
« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2023, 03:21:44 PM »
You have severe cognitive issues. We all know why you’re in this thread, to cast doomsday repeats (2000 times) on a simple fleeting idea.

First, my reply was to Oboe, not you.  You decided to reply to me.

So saying that none of AH's main issues are unfixable is only being negative?  That sounds pretty empowering to me.

Now if I said, people just hate WWII and only want to fly modern jets, that would be negative because you can't have AH without WWII.  But I have always argued the exact opposite of that in endless topics.  I've shown by example there appears to be no innate rejection of the WWII genre in the broader market.  WWII as a genre in not AH's problem.  Or else IL2 wouldn't be as successful as it has been.  Or else a new project wouldn't be starting that is going to take years and tens of millions of dollars in development investment.  Obviously, WWII is not a dead genre.

You hate it, it must be good for AH

I also didn't say I hated your idea.  I specifically said there as nothing wrong with it.  My point was that your intent was that it might help the numbers and I was pointing out what would be preventing it from having your intended effect. 

It was an on-topic statement, not in any way insulting, and not even addressed to you.  However you have decided it was insufficiently worshipful and so you are going to go into one of your crying fits.


Besides, do you deny this should have been posted in the Wishlist topic?  Are your ideas too important to go there?



« Last Edit: October 15, 2023, 04:19:13 PM by CptTrips »
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Offline Dadtallica

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Re: Arena idea FR & RR
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2023, 04:49:35 PM »
You’ll get this thread locked like every thread you touch, just be gone.

You post the same thread every week with the same regurgitated thoughts. And Animl… you are as much to blame for thread locking as anyone. The nonsense you do to people in private is childish and borderline harassment yet you claim to be an exceptional human on all accounts. 

You sir are most certainly out standing in your field.  :salute
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Squad I did the most tours with were the Excaliburs then The 172nd Rabid Dogs. Still trying to talk Illigaf, Coola, Oldman22, and Joecrow into coming back instead of being boring old farts!

Offline CptTrips

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Re: Arena idea FR & RR
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2023, 05:12:00 PM »
You post the same thread every week with the same regurgitated thoughts. And Animl…

And yet I will continue to post what I want, where I want, when I want.  As I am doing now.

Neither you nor Animl have any authority over that.  You may choose to not read anything you like. 

Yet I will post as I please.


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Offline Dadtallica

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Re: Arena idea FR & RR
« Reply #20 on: October 15, 2023, 05:54:37 PM »
And yet I will continue to post what I want, where I want, when I want.  As I am doing now.

Neither you nor Animl have any authority over that.  You may choose to not read anything you like. 

Yet I will post as I please.

That was all directed at Animl not you. I’m also not engaging in this one anymore it’s a dead horse, I’m sure a pm is coming my way lol.

I mean you have you’re own issues but let’s keep on theme here.  :rofl
Back in 2022 after a loooooong break from 2010. Old name Ratpack, same for the BBS.

Squad I did the most tours with were the Excaliburs then The 172nd Rabid Dogs. Still trying to talk Illigaf, Coola, Oldman22, and Joecrow into coming back instead of being boring old farts!

Offline CptTrips

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Re: Arena idea FR & RR
« Reply #21 on: October 15, 2023, 06:05:04 PM »
I mean you have you’re own issues but let’s keep on theme here.  :rofl

Oh...I got issues.  ;)
« Last Edit: October 15, 2023, 09:00:09 PM by CptTrips »
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Offline Brooke

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Re: Arena idea FR & RR
« Reply #22 on: October 16, 2023, 10:35:17 PM »
Last I recall HiTech talking about it (years ago), he said that there were plenty of new users trying out AH, but they went into the melee arena for about 15 minutes, then left and never came back.

If that is still the dynamic, it means the biggest thing is barrier to entry.  Not monetary model, or graphics.  Noobs go in and don't get quickly into action they enjoy.  They get massacred, or don't find a fight, or whatever, and leave for good.

I remember relaxed realism and full realism from Air Warrior days.  It was an attempt to ease that transition from noob to not-noob.  But RR in Air Warrior was more popular than FR, and a lot of veteran players stayed just in RR and didn't have any desire to go into FR.  In that case, it doesn't help the noob from getting massacred.  (I remember trying to get veterans to graduate from RR to FR, and being frustrated by their lack of desire to do so.  Same as my frustration here trying to get melee players to try scenarios.)

I think the Air Warrior also had a beginners arena.  You could play in it when you first signed up.  But once you got some number of kills (5?  10?  I can't remember), you couldn't enter the beginners arena anymore.  It's a good idea.  But if there aren't enough beginners, it doesn't work out.  As you show up in the beginners arena, and it's only you in there.

Offline CptTrips

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Re: Arena idea FR & RR
« Reply #23 on: October 16, 2023, 11:14:15 PM »
Nevermind.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2023, 12:53:02 AM by CptTrips »
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Offline oboe

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Re: Arena idea FR & RR
« Reply #24 on: October 17, 2023, 09:31:53 AM »
Last I recall HiTech talking about it (years ago), he said that there were plenty of new users trying out AH, but they went into the melee arena for about 15 minutes, then left and never came back.

If that is still the dynamic, it means the biggest thing is barrier to entry.  Not monetary model, or graphics.  Noobs go in and don't get quickly into action they enjoy.  They get massacred, or don't find a fight, or whatever, and leave for good.

I remember relaxed realism and full realism from Air Warrior days.  It was an attempt to ease that transition from noob to not-noob.  But RR in Air Warrior was more popular than FR, and a lot of veteran players stayed just in RR and didn't have any desire to go into FR.  In that case, it doesn't help the noob from getting massacred.  (I remember trying to get veterans to graduate from RR to FR, and being frustrated by their lack of desire to do so.  Same as my frustration here trying to get melee players to try scenarios.)

I think the Air Warrior also had a beginners arena.  You could play in it when you first signed up.  But once you got some number of kills (5?  10?  I can't remember), you couldn't enter the beginners arena anymore.  It's a good idea.  But if there aren't enough beginners, it doesn't work out.  As you show up in the beginners arena, and it's only you in there.

I saved Hitech's quote from the post you're referring to, because I thought it seemed hugely telling about the state of the game, with regard to first impressions, ease of use, learning curve, etc.  Here it is:
Quote
Quote from: hitech on November 29, 2017, 10:21:00 AM

Don't mean to jump on ya but on this rare occasion I want to point out how mistaken almost all people on this board are about the dynamics of AH.

In the last 100 days aprox 40,000 people have installed Aces High, 20,000 new people have created accounts and entered an arena. Of the people entering the arena 65% are gone and do never reenter by the 10 minute mark of being in the arena. 75% are gone after 30 Minutes. HiTech

I may be way off, but I think the Steam release was far more effective at getting users to try the game than any advertising campaign has been.   In fact, I think it made it so easy to try the game that many people who were only marginally interested tried it - losing half of the 40,000 DLs suggests AH doesn't make a good first impression, or that half the people who DL'd weren't the kind of people who were going to stick around anyway - they might've been mildly curious and tried it out because Steam makes it so easy to do so.

Offline CptTrips

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Re: Arena idea FR & RR
« Reply #25 on: October 17, 2023, 10:04:58 AM »
I saved Hitech's quote from the post you're referring to, because I thought it seemed hugely telling about the state of the game, with regard to first impressions, ease of use, learning curve, etc.  Here it is:
I may be way off, but I think the Steam release was far more effective at getting users to try the game than any advertising campaign has been.   In fact, I think it made it so easy to try the game that many people who were only marginally interested tried it - losing half of the 40,000 DLs suggests AH doesn't make a good first impression, or that half the people who DL'd weren't the kind of people who were going to stick around anyway - they might've been mildly curious and tried it out because Steam makes it so easy to do so.

Which is why I put stuff like finding a fight and long flight times to fights at #4.  I'm not going to spend 3 hours to find the post, but I remember HT saying most never got wheels up. So it is doubtful that not finding a fight was a major factor.  They never got that far.  That's why I stated the last two the last two items in the list affected those who have subscription more than those you are trying to convince to start one.

It could be a training issue.  I've been doubting that more and more.  AH does a good job default mapping controls.  Auto take-off is enabled by default.  I've played many other flightsims.    at least a good portion of those downloads would be players who have played WT, IL2, DCS, BMS, etc.  I can not believe that most couldn't get airborne with a little effort if they has a motivation to do so.  I think their decision had already been made before that point.  They didn't see anything to change their mind.

Based off the reviews I saw on the Steam page and the data HT has posted, I still believe that 99.99999996% have already decided to uninstall at the point they get the trial\subscription message.  They are just going a little further out of curiosity to see it, but aren't even bothering to get airborne. 

Their expectation of how a subscription game should work has been shaped by market leaders like WT.  They are expecting a portion of the planeset to always be FTP, not just a two week trial.  Toss out what ever excuses you want, but the way the game is listed reinforces that.  When they get the trial\subscription message, it feels like a slap in the face and a big middle-finger.  It doesn't matter why the game had to be listed like that, it only matters what the outcome effect is.

Failing to adjust to the current markets expectations of how subscription games should be structured is the single largest point of friction to AH, IMHO.

Just as other sims that failed to realize how the market had turned away from pay-per-hour and died do to that failure.  HTC saw the market shift then and was one of the very first to go flat rate.  I fear HTC has failed to realize the market expectations have shifted again and a subscription model designed back when Bill Clinton was President might not still be effective in 2023.

I would never want to see AH go the micro transaction route like WT, but I think they do have a much smarter approach to keep contact with a potential customers longer with their FTP planes.

All should go read through the 300+ reviews on the Steam page.  It can't be proven that every player who downloads has those reactions, but that is the data you have.  Those are the only written (that I know of) explanations of why players who have downloaded AH were not sold.  You won't agree with them, but that is self-selection.  Since you are still here it is likely you don't share their view.  Never the less, it would be unwise to ignore them.  Those reviews should be read by anyone seriously wanting to understand where AH is failing to make the sale.

Or just believe what ever makes you feel good regardless of evidence.  That is what most people do. ;)

 
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Online Shuffler

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Re: Arena idea FR & RR
« Reply #26 on: October 17, 2023, 10:27:35 AM »
Not being able to buy yourself better will make many move along.
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Offline CptTrips

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Re: Arena idea FR & RR
« Reply #27 on: October 17, 2023, 10:33:24 AM »
Not being able to buy yourself better will make many move along.

Possibly true, but IL2 and DCS generate millions in revenue despite that. 

Why doesn't AH?

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Offline Animl-AW

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Re: Arena idea FR & RR
« Reply #28 on: October 17, 2023, 10:58:35 AM »
Some tend to think every idea I have is based soley on drawing new players. Not so. I usually considered the draw as a byproduct.

I look at ideas like biz cards, if you give out 100 and only 5 respond, you’re probably ding pretty good.

————————-

THE SUBJECT IS ABOUT FR AND RR
NOT A STEADY FLOW OF NEGATIVE BY A DISGRUNTLED FORMER PLAYER.
Its called seeding

DCS SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It sucks, it’s a money pit, and numbers are dropping. DCS SUCKS!!! Its stale and boring!

Offline Animl-AW

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Re: Arena idea FR & RR
« Reply #29 on: October 17, 2023, 11:02:58 AM »
I’m going to spend time on your yt page.