Illegal Immigration

[DmonSlyr]

It's quite impressive how one person can convince so many that all illegal immigrants are criminals. There isn't a single family running from tyranny seeking freedom and opportunity. Oh and I almost forgot, "this vermin is fouling the blood of America".

Be happy though Q-boy, they certainly don't want to live where you do. There are no backyards in RABBITHOLES.

Isn't it strange how the corruption these folks are running from is the same corruption all leftest create in their countries? Thus creating more people fleeing from corruption to more conservatively free countries. Once america becomes left like those countries, then where are people going to flee to?

[Eagler]

It's quite impressive how one person can convince so many that all illegal immigrants are criminals. There isn't a single family running from tyranny seeking freedom and opportunity. Oh and I almost forgot, "this vermin is fouling the blood of America".

Be happy though Q-boy, they certainly don't want to live where you do. There are no backyards in RABBITHOLES.

Crossing the border illegally means you are breaking the law..

Breaking the law makes you a criminal ...

Sorry but for every woman and child shown crossing the border with what looks like new clothes , some with cellphones- I see 100 young men needed in their country if they ever want to make their country great again...

All for legal immigration as that is what has made this country what it is today...

Speak to the 10's of 1000's of Indian software developers trying to get citizenship legally in this country what they think about this sneaky corrupt illegal immigration...

The ones I spoke to can't believe it...

Eagler

[TryHard]

It's quite impressive how one person can convince so many that all illegal immigrants are criminals. There isn't a single family running from tyranny seeking freedom and opportunity. Oh and I almost forgot, "this vermin is fouling the blood of America".

Be happy though Q-boy, they certainly don't want to live where you do. There are no backyards in RABBITHOLES.

Because those who jump borders illegally should not be prosecuted for it while the people waiting YEARS to do it the right way can wait.
If I don't pay my taxes I am a criminal and the IRS will pull their van up to my house and take all my stuff. Illegal immigrants don't pay taxes, I say turn em over to the IRS.

Oh and anyone who disagrees must be a Trump supporter and "Q-boy" right? They're just looking for better life, the Chinese nationals that somehow end up in Mexico and those mean white people just don't like them.

[Brooke]

I have left-leaning pals who are good at heart.  They do things based on whether or not step 1 (of a proposed solution to a problem) seems compassionate.  They do not have a good practical grasp on how the real world works.  And they either do not consider full chains of resulting consequences, or they consider in their minds how a thing will play out, but their mental model of how things work out is impractical and divergent from how things actually work out.

As a result, they push for policies that in the full chain of consequences are disasters.

An example of chain of thought from left-leaning pals.  People become criminals because of growing up in bad environments.  (I don't have a problem with this first step.  But let's keep going.)  Since what environment one grows up in is not under one's control, being a criminal is not the criminal's fault.  In fact, the criminal is a victim of bad circumstances.  And you don't punish victims.  Therefore, criminals shouldn't be prosecuted.  You should have government-run aid programs and government-provided community counselors instead.  It's the wrong direction to have police being harsh on those victims.  If a victim steals a bit from a store, maybe it's because that person has to eat and has to feed a family.  What would you do if you were starving or your family were starving?  You shouldn't put people in jail for doing things they are forced by circumstances to do.  There shouldn't be punishment for stealing up to some point.

So, this chain of reasoning starts from a point of compassion.  And ends up in disaster.  Because they didn't consider or believe that, if you put in place a system that doesn't punish theft, as result #2, you will get rampant theft.  And if you have rampant theft, as result #3, every shop and store will move out of an area.  And if every store and shop moves out of an area, as result #4, you have no stores, which makes it a worse place to live.  And result #5, if you have fewer jobs in the area, it makes it a worse place to live.  And as result #6, if it's a worse place to live, people who can move out do move out, while people who have more problems stay.  And as result #7, if you have that dynamic, you end up creating more people in the situation you are trying to help in step #1.  You created a doom loop.

Add in corruption at the top (those who might know a thing will be a disaster, but promote it anyway for money or votes or power), and you have what leads to the Detroitification of your once-great city.  I'm sensitive to this, as I grew up near Detroit and saw what happened to what was once America's thriving 5th largest city, full of prosperity, jobs, and well integrated.

You can Detroitify cities through this process.

You can Detroitify companies through this process.

You can Detroitify nations through this process.

[Brooke]

The process I talk about above has analogs in the problems of homelessness, illegal immigration, economic policy, regulation, etc.

[AKIron]

Apparently there are many cities in this country inviting illegal immigrants with open arms. Abbott is helping them get there. Other governors in the border states being inundated should roll their busses too. A few thousand down, millions to go. Get ready NYC, Chicago, etc....

[Busher]

Maybe to take this conversation on a new track, I would personally be interested to know the plan going forward.

Regime's change from time to time and when this happens in a way that is more suitable for you, I would be keen to know the changes you would like to see. You can no doubt appreciate that left-wing, woke, liberal trade unionists like me will likely face significant life changes. Please share your visions for what that might be. Notice I did not mention my race.

[AKIron]

If you live in a sanctuary city be prepared to have a LOT more competition for your jobs and public resources. You asked for it.

That part is already a done deal. Wouldn't matter if the borders were sealed tight tomorrow. You're going to get them by the hundreds of thousands you already welcomed.

[Brooke]

Maybe to take this conversation on a new track, I would personally be interested to know the plan going forward.

Regime's change from time to time and when this happens in a way that is more suitable for you, I would be keen to know the changes you would like to see. You can no doubt appreciate that left-wing, woke, liberal trade unionists like me will likely face significant life changes. Please share your visions for what that might be. Notice I did not mention my race.

Howdy, Busher.

I don't know that there would be a lot of changes for you with regard to trade unions, your job, your rights, etc.  Other than right-leaning folks are generally against unions being able to force employees to pay fees or force employees to join.  That might affect you if it were to change those policies where you work.

Changes would be more at the federal level.  Less illegal immigration, higher border enforcement, less prevalence of government and big companies hiring based on race or ideological pledges, stronger action on fentanyl supply, perhaps somewhat lower taxes on the middle class, repeal of some regulations (such as on oil drilling, pipelines, ability for US to sell natural gas, various reporting things which might have a big impact on the small businessman or entrepreneur).  Perhaps somewhat less censorship on places like Youtube.  Changes in staff in government agencies, which is usual as each side puts in its folks.  No national digital currency.

We could see pardoning of some Jan 6 people, legal investigations of government officials accused of wrongdoing (Hunter Biden, Mayorkas, Fauci), which you might see as political persecution, but right-leaning folks would see as going after corruption and crime.  Maybe more information and charges related to Epstein.  Maybe pardoning of Assange and Snowden.

We could see political fights over voting process, funding level of this or that agency, this or that regulation.

We might see less war.

I'm not sure what will happen with respect to economy.  I'm not sure how anyone (other than a Milei-like character) would do what's needed to fix it.  Fixing it, in my opinion, would require short-term pain for a longer-term gain.  No politician on the left  or right (maybe other than Rand Paul or Thomas Massie) in this country would do that.

I think the amount of wokeness we have in media and education will go down.  That's not controlled federally, though.

We might get battling over a federal preclusion of abortion after some number of weeks, but maybe not.  A lot of people, and not just on the left, feel that's not for the federal government to decide.

[MiloMorai]

They are not illegal when they apply for asylum.

[Maverick]

If they illegally cross the border before filing for asylum, they are illegal aliens. There are US embassies in the countries they passed through where asylum seekers are supposed to stop and make the claim.

[Professor_Fate]

If they illegally cross the border before filing for asylum, they are illegal aliens. There are US embassies in the countries they passed through where asylum seekers are supposed to stop and make the claim.

True, but only seems to apply to those crossing the southern border.

On Aug. 3, 2023, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit issued a stay of the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of California’s order in East Bay Sanctuary Covenant v. Biden, 18-cv-06810 (N.D. Cal.), vacating the Circumvention of Lawful Pathways (CLP) rule. At this time and while the stay remains in place, USCIS will continue to apply the CLP rule.

Under the rule, certain individuals who enter the United States through its southwest land border or adjacent coastal borders are presumed to be ineligible for asylum, unless they can demonstrate an exception to the rule or rebut the presumption. Individuals are encouraged to use lawful, safe, and orderly pathways to come to the United States.

[Shuffler]

It's quite impressive how one person can convince so many that all illegal immigrants are criminals. There isn't a single family running from tyranny seeking freedom and opportunity. Oh and I almost forgot, "this vermin is fouling the blood of America".

Be happy though Q-boy, they certainly don't want to live where you do. There are no backyards in RABBITHOLES.

All illegals are criminals. They become a criminals when they break the law coming across illegally. It is actually the first thing they do entering the country.

[GasTeddy]

All illegals are criminals. They become a criminals when they break the law coming across illegally. It is actually the first thing they do entering the country.

Yes, but if they know magic word "asylum", they surprisingly can stay.

[Tumor]

An example of chain of thought from left-leaning pals.  People become criminals because of growing up in bad environments.  (I don't have a problem with this first step.  But let's keep going.)  Since what environment one grows up in is not under one's control, being a criminal is not the criminal's fault.  In fact, the criminal is a victim of bad circumstances.  And you don't punish victims.

"I may have done stupid things and broken some laws, but I an NOT a criminal"