Author Topic: How fun is it to see F-15s, F-16 and F-35 coming back without missiles?  (Read 1046 times)

Offline Meatwad

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Re: How fun is it to see F-15s, F-16 and F-35 coming back without missiles?
« Reply #45 on: April 19, 2024, 09:25:38 AM »
How long will it be before zelensky starts screaming that everyone isnt paying enough attention to him anymore and he needs another 100 billion in support
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Offline artik

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Re: How fun is it to see F-15s, F-16 and F-35 coming back without missiles?
« Reply #46 on: April 19, 2024, 09:31:47 AM »
Aye, we're probably getting as close as we were in the 60ies except now there are no maintained fallout shelters. Heck I bet anybody under 40 has ever done a "duck and cover drill" (not that it would have helped) I remember sitting under my desk in grade school thinking: "this isn't going to help much."

You say so...

In Israel every school, kindergarten and almost every modern home has shelter or so called safe room built of concrete. Everybody is drilled (including small kids in a kindergarten) to go to shelter upon air alarm. And time notice is quite short. For my place it is around 1m 30s when there is a fire from Gaza.

And ohh boy we use it frequently  :angry:

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"duck and cover drill" (not that it would have helped)

Actually if you aren't in the epicenter of nuclear blast it will. Reduce direct radiation heat, reduce chance of wave etc.

Of course also in conventional bomb/rocket situation it helps since wall gives better protection than windows.
Artik, 101 "Red" Squadron, Israel

Offline artik

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Re: How fun is it to see F-15s, F-16 and F-35 coming back without missiles?
« Reply #47 on: April 19, 2024, 09:37:43 AM »
How long will it be before zelensky starts screaming that everyone isnt paying enough attention to him anymore and he needs another 100 billion in support

You still don't get it?

You pay with military equipment to save later NATO soldier lives if Ukraine falls. It is better to give the damn missiles, shells and F-16s long time ago because later you'll pay way-way-way more on investments in military and likely with human lives.

Not solving the major problem now is always pays off as history shows  :bhead
Artik, 101 "Red" Squadron, Israel

Offline Shuffler

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Re: How fun is it to see F-15s, F-16 and F-35 coming back without missiles?
« Reply #48 on: April 19, 2024, 10:36:45 AM »
Our enemies are already in place throughout our country. Better think more like Red Dawn. It has been a simple task for them.
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Offline Meatwad

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Re: How fun is it to see F-15s, F-16 and F-35 coming back without missiles?
« Reply #49 on: April 19, 2024, 10:42:53 AM »
The situation in ukraine is NOT the problem of the united states, and the usa is not the worlds police force. we have no business in that country. If it was in NATO, then yes it would be supported. But since it isnt, its not our problem. the usa just wants to be in a proxy war with russia to see how well our weapons defeat russian armor and air. we sent so much crap over there now it will take years to rebuild our stockpiles. but it is our problem now when certain high profile people in the usa was using their crime family ties for fraud over there. if the toejam hits the fan here, we wont have anything left to fight with since it was sent to the european black hole to end up on black market arms sites
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Offline CptTrips

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Re: How fun is it to see F-15s, F-16 and F-35 coming back without missiles?
« Reply #50 on: April 19, 2024, 12:41:08 PM »
If it was in NATO, then yes it would be supported.

Will it?  Or will the argument simply become, "Why are we in NATO?  What about our border?  Why aren't we spending money here instead of saving NATO countries?"

They try and imply that screw Ukraine, but they'll suddenly fight like heck to support...Romania.  Or Latvia, or Estonia, or Lithuania?  I don't buy it.  They'll simply reuse the same arguments.

Now if the argument truly is, "screw all our Euro allies or Taiwan even.  Spend the money here."  That is an argument that would at least be honest and internally consistent.  Then we can debate that.  But lets be honest about what the true, America First (goes back to pre-WWII) position is. 

They will not suddenly draw the line at Romania.






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Offline Meatwad

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Re: How fun is it to see F-15s, F-16 and F-35 coming back without missiles?
« Reply #51 on: April 19, 2024, 01:44:32 PM »
Apparently speaking out against dumping american resources in ukraine gets reported because it hurted feelings........
See Rule 19- Do not place sausage on pizza.
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Offline artik

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Re: How fun is it to see F-15s, F-16 and F-35 coming back without missiles?
« Reply #52 on: April 19, 2024, 02:04:44 PM »
The situation in ukraine is NOT the problem of the united states, and the usa is not the worlds police force. we have no business in that country.

Supplying/giving away weapons isn't being a police force.

But even speaking from truly $$$ perspective. What happens if Ukraine falls and Russia is on the borders of NATO allies - Romania, Poland. What do you think will be the spending on NATO for US and European tax payers.

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If it was in NATO, then yes it would be supported. But since it isnt, its not our problem.

Yeah Czechoslovakia wasn't UK problem as well, till it become
Artik, 101 "Red" Squadron, Israel

Offline Tumor

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Re: How fun is it to see F-15s, F-16 and F-35 coming back without missiles?
« Reply #53 on: April 19, 2024, 02:21:49 PM »
But even speaking from truly $$$ perspective. What happens if Ukraine falls and Russia is on the borders of NATO allies.

What happens when NATO is on the border of Russia?

heh... see what I did right there? :bolt:
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Offline artik

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Re: How fun is it to see F-15s, F-16 and F-35 coming back without missiles?
« Reply #54 on: April 19, 2024, 02:24:24 PM »
What happens when NATO is on the border of Russia?

heh... see what I did right there? :bolt:

Wrong quote:
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What happens if Ukraine falls and Russia is on the borders of NATO allies - Romania, Poland

It isn't the same as current NATO borders with Russia.




We have enough of our problems to deal with. Just I wouldn't recommend sticking the head into the sand. Cause it always ends well  :airplane:
« Last Edit: April 19, 2024, 02:26:17 PM by artik »
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Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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Re: How fun is it to see F-15s, F-16 and F-35 coming back without missiles?
« Reply #55 on: April 19, 2024, 07:23:05 PM »
The premise that Putin just doesn't want NATO on the border with Russia is just another Putin lie. He wants to annex Ukraine, just like Georgia, and take Russia back to it's "lost glory". It's about expansion. First he claimed it was because Ukraine applied to NATO. Then he claimed it was about "nazis", then he claimed it was about some people on the border of Ukraine and Russia. It's simple. Just like 1939 simple. Russia has goals of expansion, control, and power. Bet on it. Putin is Stalin in a nice suit. He's old school KGB.

FYI, I have no problem with differing opinions. I completely understand the reluctance to spend money on Ukraine. I'm skeptical as well. And no fan of Zelensky. He's just not as problematic as an expansion seeking KGB Putin.
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Offline Tumor

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Re: How fun is it to see F-15s, F-16 and F-35 coming back without missiles?
« Reply #56 on: April 19, 2024, 10:08:02 PM »
The premise that Putin just doesn't want NATO on the border with Russia is just another Putin lie. He wants to annex Ukraine, just like Georgia, and take Russia back to it's "lost glory". It's about expansion. First he claimed it was because Ukraine applied to NATO. Then he claimed it was about "nazis", then he claimed it was about some people on the border of Ukraine and Russia. It's simple. Just like 1939 simple. Russia has goals of expansion, control, and power. Bet on it. Putin is Stalin in a nice suit. He's old school KGB.

FYI, I have no problem with differing opinions. I completely understand the reluctance to spend money on Ukraine. I'm skeptical as well. And no fan of Zelensky. He's just not as problematic as an expansion seeking KGB Putin.

It's no single thing.  Every single thing we hear is Propaganda, ~every~single~thing.  Regardless, NATO creep is a huge part of what's happening.  And we had a sort of deal, and we sort of reneged.  Kinda like plausible deniability for all. Either way, Putin or any other Russian leader would be out of their mind to be A-OK with NATO sitting next door.... especially when 1/2 the population of the main force behind NATO screams Russia every time someone farts in an elevator. Not to mention, Nuclear Deterrence is still a thing, not matter what ~anyone~ says.  And remember, those people over there... they think in Centuries that go back MANY before our happy little corner of history was a passing dream.  There's far more to this than Russia wanting Ukraine. Russia see's Ukraine AS Russia.  But hey, that doesn't fit the narrative.

There's is a huge gap in far-Western thinking... we simply don't understand the history over there, and it's massive.  It's the same reason why/how China is making us look like fools.  It's only partially their doing, we're real good at doing it all by ourselves.

We all live in our own box.  As difficult and uncomfortable as it is, I still try hard to step outside of mine as often as possible.

« Last Edit: April 19, 2024, 10:10:09 PM by Tumor »
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Offline Shuffler

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Re: How fun is it to see F-15s, F-16 and F-35 coming back without missiles?
« Reply #57 on: April 20, 2024, 04:53:54 AM »
Personally, l don't trust NATO any more than Russia.
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Offline Eagler

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Re: How fun is it to see F-15s, F-16 and F-35 coming back without missiles?
« Reply #58 on: April 20, 2024, 06:45:08 AM »
Have to give the patriotic propaganda boys credit..they have made defending one of the most corrupt nations in the world required or you are automatically a Russian bot...and are silenced

There were ways out of the conflict before it started..

They were ignored

We are on the doorstep of ww3 now

Wtg!

Eagler
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Offline CptTrips

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Re: How fun is it to see F-15s, F-16 and F-35 coming back without missiles?
« Reply #59 on: April 20, 2024, 08:15:03 AM »
There were ways out of the conflict before it started..
They were ignored

Yeah.

Like Putin could have... you know... chosen not to invade.



Toxic, psychotic, self-aggrandizing drama queens simply aren't worth me spending my time on.