How fun is it to see F-15s, F-16 and F-35 coming back without missiles?

[Tumor]

Under Putin, Russia is still the same Russia that, if it had an ally like Nazi Germany...

Well now, that's a stretch for the record books.

[Tumor]

Are you saying it is only my opinion that there is no signed treaty blocking NATO expansion into Former Soviet states?

Do you have a link to that signed treaty?  That is not an opinion.  It is an objective fact.  The treaty exists or it doesn't, right?

You can have your opinions, but we have to be able to share objective fact or else rational discussion is impossible.

You are either missing, or intentionally avoiding his point.

Just saying.

[CptTrips]

You are either missing, or intentionally avoiding his point.

Just saying.

No, I'm saying there is no point to discussing his opinions if we can't agree upon a couple of fundamental objective facts.

He said I won't admit it is just my opinion that there was no treaty of NATO promising to never accept former Soviet states.  That isn't an opinion.  It is an object fact.

The reason that is important, is that several of these discussions as you drill down on "opinions" on Ukraine, many are distorted by the believe that we had broken a signed treaty never to expand NATO into former Soviet states.  That's how they justify Putin's actions.  Putin is supposed to be the aggrieved party.

So before we discuss any opinions on Ukraine it is a good idea to establish the facts that no such treaty has ever existed.  It is Russian mis-information.  And if someone won't just stipulate an obvious objective fact, opinions are uninformed and just noise.  And certainly no opinion should be based on Russian mis-information.

[Meatwad]

We can both find documents to support both sides of this. For example:
The Strobe Talbott account of the October 22nd meeting with Yeltsin is more detailed and nuanced than Christopher’s, but also leaves the impression that Yeltsin heard only what he wanted to hear...

However this is not my point.

My point is that the US would not agree to Mexico joining Russia and putting nukes in Mexico any more then we could accept Russian nukes in Cuba. However we expect Russia to accept nukes in Ukraine which would have less then a 10 minute flight time to Moscow.

Seems people think it's normal for the US to start a nuclear war over Russian missiles in Cuba but it's completely unreasonable for Russia to say anything about NATO missiles in Ukraine...

This is my final post on this matter as I'm trying to make a point on hypocrisy, not argue the details of who said exactly what and who heard exactly what about what was said.

Wouldnt have to go as far as nukes in mexico, that would be far too noticeable. Easier to do what they are doing now,  crossing the southern border illegally by the tens of thousands  claiming "asylum" until they have enough of them in the country staged, armed, and ready to go, then all of a sudden there is a country wide Guerrilla warfare event happening within the US borders all over the country which will paralize this country. It is a very real possibility since the leaders of this country allow the floods of illegals to come  here along with their 3rd world diseases because they are too scared to hurt feelings by trying to stop it

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Well now, that's a stretch for the record books.

If you think so......